Friday, July 10, 2009

Palin and the "Intellectuals" (or at least some of them)



What is it with Palin and these conservative intellectuals? Usually smart people are reduced to blathering buffoons when it comes to discussing the woman they love to hate. Actually, make that just 'hate'. How else to explain the high pitched scream that is today's edition of Peggy Noonan's WSJ column ('A Farewell to Harms')?

I have to admit that I always thought that to make it as an intellectual, you had to make sure you applied the old rules of logic. You know, things like 'if you assert something, you have to have facts to back it up', or 'if you attribute a statement to a person, you've got to be pretty darned sure they actually said it'. But apparently for an intellectual superstar like Noonan, these rules don't apply. Which means she doesn't actually have to know the governor, let alone speak to her, before making statements like 'Palin doesn't read anything' and seems 'proud of it'. The fact that Palin describes herself as a 'voracious reader' would perhaps suggest otherwise, but hey: facts are for suckers, right? Noonan is an Olympian, she doesn't need facts to tell her that Palin is 'bad for the republic'.

Same goes for Peter Wehner over at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. "Her public appearances have generally ranged from mediocre to awful," he asserts. Would that be 'public appearance' as in 'the second most watched debate in the history of televised presidential debates'? You know, the one about which one Peggy Noonan summed up Palin's performance with the words 'She killed'? 'She killed', is that somewhere between mediocre and awful? Or was he just making it up because he wanted to give an added sense of urgency to his claim that Palin is 'terribly out of sync with the needs of this moment' - whatever that may mean?

Now, these are people who have given many years of service to the conservative cause, so we should be willing to cut them some slack. If they want to have a go at a bit of logic-free, fact-free ranting, they should be allowed to do so.

By why, why, why, point their arrows at one of their own - even if they don't like her, even if they believe she doesn't read books and is proud of it, even if they think she's 'terribly out of sync with the needs of this moment'?

There's a man in the White House right now whose stated ambition it is to dismantle the entire conservative legacy of the Reagan-Gingrich period, but instead of focusing their efforts on fighting him to a standstill, they are so self-obsessed that they'd rather waste their time fighting their internal enemies. Even if they're desperate to stop her from winning the Republican nomination, can't they at least have the decency to wait until the start of the primaries before having a go at her? Wouldn't it be better for their party and the republic they claim to care about so deeply if they actually joined forces with her - and Romney, and Huckabee, and whoever else wants to join - and fight the fight that really needs to be fought?

I mean, are they for real?

To quote the great John McEnroe: they can not be serious!

UPDATE by Tim: Time for a Peggy Noonan flashback...her famous off-mike "it's over" and "bulls--t" comments made immediately after Palin was nominated to the VP ticket:



Mike Murphy, former Romney aide and Noonan's partner in crime in the above segment, also came out with a Palin hit piece recently. Peggy Noonan never gave Palin a chance, and everything she has said or written about Palin in the last months is an attempt to justify the ill-considered remarks she made above.

146 comments:

Dan C July 10, 2009 12:57 PM  

It really is amazing. They attack Sarah Palin more then Barack Obama.

Nancy July 10, 2009 1:07 PM  

Joshua,
Thank you for posting this, and your comments.
I read her whole article and it made me, well, really sad and frustrated.
I do not get it.

section9 July 10, 2009 1:11 PM  

Sadly, the conservative intellectual movement in the U.S. has atrophied since Reagan left town. Under both Bushes, it lost its dynamism.

Palin represents a resurrection of hope, but also an insurgency: a denial of the way things have been done up to now. It's an implicit rejection of the existing conservative order. This is upsetting for a lot of people who make money and have standing with the status quo.

The status quo is killing the country. They don't seem to get this. Palin does.

Ted July 10, 2009 1:12 PM  

With all due respect, I think Noonan has been a bit off her rocker, and now getting more pronounced, for some time.

wisetrog July 10, 2009 1:17 PM  

Joshua, these people have decided that the primary is gone, all sewed up. They cannot wait until the primary. Sarah's a monster. Who else can survive the barrage she did over the weekend and still have her popularity n ratings in tact? she's impervious. Waiting till the primary is too late.

Some like Frum have decided that if Sarah can be stopped, it's only via death by thousand cuts. They know she has integrity and there'll never be a scandal except for "family dramas." Hence, she can be stopped by only death by thousand cuts. Make life hell for Sarah till the primary and you know maybe they can stop her. That's their plan.

I don't think Noonan n others are onto the game, she's lead by blind irrational hatred; the others move in high circles n they are picking up memes n tropes from there n mindlessly repeating it.

These are not intellectuals, they are "drones."

section9 July 10, 2009 1:25 PM  

No, trog, Noonan really believes that Palin is STOOPID. There's a bit of puckish editorializing at Real Clear Politics. They are on to Peggy's game:

GOP, Country Better Off Without Stupid Sarah

Even the RCP editors realized that it was a screed, straight from Peggy's gut.

There's a whole lot of condescension in Peggy's attitude, and it stems from the notion that the WH is for Republicans like Jeb or Romney-guys who are prepared for the job.

The problem is; it's the people who have been prepared for the job who have gotten us lost in the weeds. Reagan, who had far less education than these people, understood the great principles, and stuck by them. And if Peggy had bothered to look at Palin's budgeting, she would have seen that.

Debtstar July 10, 2009 1:26 PM  

Oh nooo , when you lose noonan... oh wait , whatever.

Talk about Bitter clingers. Clinging to the old ways, all their build up cred will be wasted if a yokel from Alaska wins popularity.

Bill in Baltimore July 10, 2009 1:32 PM  

Remember, Peggy Noonan said last year:

"After six weeks on the campaign trail, we still don't know what she stands for"

uh, Hello Peggy ? After six weeks you don't know what she stood for ?

Well, Miss Peggy, after listening to her introduction speech on Aug 29, 2008,
I KNEW EXACTLY WHAT SHE STOOD FOR !

AND SHE HASN'T DISAPPOINTED ME SINCE

If you want a good laugh, I eviscerated Peggy, chopping up her hit piece from last fall, see here:
http://www.info-scroll.com/documents/PeggyNoonanBashesSarahPalin.pdf

I wrote this 9-page smackdown of Peggy last fall and just now re-read it. I would not change one word. Well, maybe one.

But it tells the story simply
SHE JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

And with her recent article (which I haven't read), apparently SHE STILL DOESN'T GET IT.

Blythe July 10, 2009 1:33 PM  

Never mind the fact that Republicans are currently getting their hineys kicked with the fact that we are the minority in the House AND the Senate. One would think the Republicans might appreciate someone who can get out a crowd and make them cheer.

TangledThorns July 10, 2009 1:34 PM  

Peggy is an intellectual hack, nothing more.

blerch July 10, 2009 1:36 PM  

It's sad how so many of the east coast conservative elites have become so out of touch with the rank and file and grassroots conservatives. The Noonans, Frums, and Wehners of the world are now part of the problem and a big reason why the Republican brand became so damaged over the past several years.

The Manhattan/Washington scene is like high school. The liberals are the "cool kids." It is human nature to want to be part of the in-crowd. It takes a strong, secure person like the Guv to see these liberals for the elitist snobs that they are and to not care what they think of her. These conservative elites don't have that strength or moral clarity. They want to be liked by the cool kids. Today the surest way to do that is to bash Sarah and call her stupid, uninformed, etc. They are becoming more irrelevant with each passing day. As few years from now I believe someone's standing in the Republican party will be determined by how they came down on Sarah in 2008/2009-those who supported her will have standing, those who trashed her will be finished.

Debtstar July 10, 2009 1:43 PM  

Part envy , part rino hit piece.

Debtstar July 10, 2009 1:47 PM  

Lakerfan , subprime journalism.

Steven July 10, 2009 1:48 PM  

Great post. This is where the rubber hits the road for the conservative movement, whether you are willing to fight the fight against Obama's crazy agenda or not. The fact that these opinionators choose to fight Palin instead, says it all, notwithstanding all their prior service to the conservative movement. Whatever service it was, it's not what you've done, but what have you done lately that counts. And somewhere between Palin RNC speech and Palin's resignation, many of the old guard have forgotten their core.

wisetrog July 10, 2009 1:49 PM  

gop12.com has another attack by some CATO hack. This is second guy after Jerry Taylor who's going after Sarah. We can presume a trend. Investigate why CATO is doing this.

katiejane July 10, 2009 1:52 PM  

IMO the pundits/talking heads like Noonan, Frum, etc just can't stand it that people no longer are listening to their schred as if it came on stone tablets. They hate being insignificant so they dismiss people as being stoopid, anti-intellectual, blah, blah. Don't we realize that they are smarter, better educated, classier than we are?

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 1:55 PM  
This post has been removed by the author.
CruelaDev July 10, 2009 1:56 PM  

Levi.. That Bright Little Manchild...was just on MSNBC and reported why he "knows" why Sarah Resigned...

She wanted all the shows and book deals she could get..

I tell ya...that "Ricky Hollywood" guy is really Bright!
Go Ricky Go!

narciso July 10, 2009 1:57 PM  

Isn't Cato underwritten by the Koch bros, who have a monopolistic
relations with coal, as Exxon has oil?

Rusty July 10, 2009 1:57 PM  

These attacks by the intellectuals are all about ELITISM. Republican, Democratic, Media, Academic, Business elitism. Elites in all segments of American society are agaist Sarah - because she threatens their system which gives them all of the power and prevents others from entering their circles.

Whether we like it or not, America has become a class society. And these people want to preserve it, and their position in it.. Sarah's politics is a threat to them and she must be destroyed.

Please read this article by a political strategist from Louisiana - John Grimm. He nails it perfectly!

The direct link doesn't work, so please go to:

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/Politics/Default.asp

Then scroll down the page for the titles of a number of articles and click on:

"Why Sarah Palin Must Be Destroyed As A Political Force" by John Grimm, July 7, 2009. It's a great analysis.

MarkRNY July 10, 2009 1:58 PM  

Peggy's from East "Rutafuhd" New "Joisy". Where did she get that CT. Blueblood accent?? When she's alone she probably speaks like Carmella.

As to her being an "Intellectual", she went to Fairleigh fricken Dickenson U in Teaneck. I got into Farileigh Dickenson and I cut half my senior year of high school.

Peg just has a flair for emoting on paper and she's learned to speak in soliloquys (sp).

Urban "Intellectuals", Dem or Repub, fear grassroots movements and candidates. To them a grassroots Repub Movement means Rednecks, Elmer Gantry type Christians, etc. They're the most sheltered people on earth.

wisetrog July 10, 2009 2:00 PM  

Lindsey, a registered Republican, has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign. A self proclaimed "Obamacon",....

No wonder. He's clearly projecting.

Nancy July 10, 2009 2:00 PM  

latinchic,
LOL! Yesh.

These writers DO NOT CHECK FACTS!

What is wrong with Noonan, Quinn, Parker, Frum?


"Spit it out" Noonan said: "She went on the trail a sensation but demonstrated in the ensuing months, that she was not ready to go national and in fact never would be."
Now "Spit it out", I know D.C. has the Washington Nationals, but that doesn't mean D.C. is national. The beltway elite is not national, your cocktail parties are not national, your twisted brand of conservatism is not national, your echo chamber of all your non fact pomposity is not national. Basically go national to you, is she wasn't ready for you D.C. elites. Believe me, she has waders and she can get through any of this Shmitt you elite Shmitts make her slog through.

How about this line: she has "no proper sense of inadequacy." or she has "no sense of personal limits."

Governor Palin is the American dream living out before our very eyes, when did you decide to close your eyes on that thank God, not so elusive dream?
Why is working hard, giving a servant's heart to public service, being honest, being the Governor of Alaska, having integrity, trying to make a difference, loving America, believing in the Constitution, having a non perfect life, defending the unborn, being optimistic about America, pushing a vision of an energy independent America, having common sense, having wisdom, being smart, being brilliant, calling out what is wrong with the current administration, and saying "politically speaking, if I die, I die", why are these things seen as being inadequate? My America has no personal limits. My America doesn't care what others think of them. My America, doesn't hold people back from serving something higher than themselves. My America doesn't have a list to checkmark off for a person to reach for a goal. My America doesn't stifle competiton. My America says go for it, lead, work, do it, and yes, you can do it! Not you may do it! When did we need permission to serve others in any arena? Your narrow vision of national being the beltway, has caused you to lose the vision of what Governor Palin is and wants to be! She is the American dream and if she wants to go to D.C. and be the American dream from there, join us in saying, go for it!

"Spit it out", you. do. not. know. her. You only know what is said about her around the water cooler at MSNBC.

I realize that you are a charlatan journalist. Just part of the beltway elite herd, with a column to fill. And you don't even do it well.

wisetrog July 10, 2009 2:02 PM  

Expect MSNBC to become a natinal version of Blue Miasma, Immoral Stupidity and the like.

wisetrog July 10, 2009 2:04 PM  

Nancy, that was bloody brilliant. Now you graduate from being the joke write to the speech writer for Sarah's crack team.

section9 July 10, 2009 2:05 PM  

There's also something else: Rick Pearlstein wrote a good piece indicating how the GOP elite is breaking from the right wing rank and file. A lot of it is filled with Democratic tropes, but it's a good thumbnail analysis.

bandcbailey July 10, 2009 2:06 PM  

The more that is said to attach Sarah Palin and others of the real conservative group the more determined I am that we will take back the White House and Congress and put our country back on the right course.

alwaysfiredup July 10, 2009 2:06 PM  

Exactly. What do they mean by a "big tent" party that has no room for Palin and the sizeable contingent of conservatives who love her? If they lose Palin conservatives, where exactly are they going to make up those votes? This is just STUPID.

Nancy July 10, 2009 2:08 PM  

wisetrog,
I was so shaking my head when I read Peggy's article, I still have things rattling around in my brain and heart about it. I just, I just do not get these people that they can't see goodness when it is right in front of them.
:) Okay, I was about to start on another rant!
You are so kind to me, and I appreciate all of your comments supporting and defending this wonderful woman.Thank you, wisetrog, you are a dear friend.

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 2:10 PM  

Standing "O" Nancy...Encore.. Encore!

Rusty July 10, 2009 2:11 PM  

Just as a follow up to my previous post about Grimm's article - he makes it quite clear that Republican elites (such as Noonan and Frum) would rather lose the White House to Obama and be governed by a Marxist elitist, than be governed by someone who believes in government of the people, by the people, for the people. The reason; the later threatens their priveleged position.

Please read the article, it is a great read.

jimr3 July 10, 2009 2:11 PM  

Nancy @ 2:00

Wow!

I’ll have some of what you are having - You go girl!

katiejane July 10, 2009 2:11 PM  

alwaysfiredup - the GOP wants conservatives to help fund the big tent - but apparently the don't want conservatives to actually be under it.

Yogi41 July 10, 2009 2:12 PM  

Gosh, I'm so grateful we have these really smart people in the press telling us how to think and how to feel about someone. /s

wisetrog July 10, 2009 2:14 PM  

nancy, well they slam her so hard because they know she is good. Hatred for good for being the good. Those Ayn Rand's words but they apply well to Sarah Palin.

katiejane July 10, 2009 2:14 PM  

Republican elites (such as Noonan and Frum) would rather lose the White House to Obama and be governed by a Marxist elitist, than be governed by someone who believes in government of the people, by the people, for the people If they suceed in driving away Conservatives who support Gov Palin they may well get their wish.

narciso July 10, 2009 2:15 PM  

Wisetrog, becoming,? (about MSNBC)
anyways that Brinkley piece is a vile piece of work, linked to GOP 12, or as I like to call it GOP 16;

Nancy July 10, 2009 2:16 PM  

Bill in Baltimore,
Yeah, Peggy didn't get what Governor Palin stood for in six weeks on the trail, and now these people can't even get why she's resigning, from listening to her 20minute speech!
You elites, she isn't speaking a foreign language! On second thought, she speaks the truth, so, never mind.

alwaysfiredup,
Yes, this "big tent", how about you all come into what Governor Palin advocates: The American Dream Tent. No credentials needed. No titles needed. No degrees from certain univeeerrrsities needed.

Work hard! What a concept!



Oh, and I think Peggy has wader envy. No idea what that means.:) I'm weird.

techno July 10, 2009 2:18 PM  

Anyone now who was previously convinced that Sarah was going to retire from the political world and retire to write her book and do needlepoint should be persuaded by now that Sarah is about to take the Sarah Palin express down to the lower 48 on a constant basis.

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 2:21 PM  

Nancy said;;

"Oh, and I think Peggy has wader envy."

Nancy...that means that Peggy has stepped in "it" so many times...she no longer knows what "it" is...

If you think "it"..then write.."it".. ...It is still "it"..
I left out the "SH"...thingy!

Illinois Conservative (Whitney) July 10, 2009 2:22 PM  

I've been reading Atlas Shrugged over my lunch breaks at work recently. The chapter I just read today outlined legislation that was dangerously close to what Obama is doing, but I digress.


The next chapter I'm going to read is entitled "A moratorium on brains". How fitting after reading this analysis! I think that we can officially declare that there is a moratorium on brains amongst the GOP "intellectuals" and elites.

narciso July 10, 2009 2:24 PM  

They called it 'the aristocracy of pull' the lunacy proferred to rationalize acts like the "Dog Eat
Dog" Act

Sheya July 10, 2009 2:24 PM  

She can memorize the names of the presidents of Pakistan, but she is not going to be able to know how to think about Pakistan.

This is a pre-emptive strike for when Sarah comes back in two years full of knowledge.

We now have a president in the white house that can’t even talk without a teleprompter let alone think without it. I guess when the name is BO that’s OK.

Nancy July 10, 2009 2:25 PM  

CruelaDev,
LOL! Thanks, friend!

jimr3,
I think because I always liked Peggy, it really gets me fired up, that she doesn't see this good person. I read that article and it was so condescending toward Governor Palin! I cannot fathom it. While I'm typing, I'm shaking my head!:)
Thank you for your kind comment!

upinak July 10, 2009 2:26 PM  

Noonan and the "others' have been doing this since last year.

They aren't going to change their minds.

This isn't surprising.

Nancy July 10, 2009 2:28 PM  

CruelaDev,
That is a great explanation of wader envy! I like it! LOL!

Aitch748 July 10, 2009 2:35 PM  

Meanwhile the intellectuals, the "wonks," stand around with their thumbs up their collective rear ends while the Chicago gangster and his accomplices in Congress are destroying the country bit by bit.

Personally I've had enough of the kinds of politicians that the Peggy Noonans and the David Frums and the Christopher Buckleys like.

Brian72 July 10, 2009 2:35 PM  

There is a post in the FoxForum by a brand marketing guy who totally gets why Sarah did what she did.


"John Tantillo

- FOXNews.com

- July 09, 2009
Palin 1, Pundits 0

The usual political calculations simply do not apply to Sarah Palin. One thing is already clear -- her base is still with her, and Sarah Palin is poised to grow.

Everyone -- especially those in the political pundit class seems to be calling Sarah Palin a loser, a quitter, a committer of political suicide by leaving office mid-term.

They are all very wrong.

What's being missed is that the usual political calculations simply do not apply to Sarah Palin, one of the most unusual public figures to come along in years.

With this decision and this announcement, Sarah Palin has been absolutely true to herself. Long-term, this will translate to a success that will leave most political pundits in the dust."

Brian72 July 10, 2009 2:37 PM  

"Why?

The pundit class is basing their analysis on calculations of the past (i.e., people who got elected president didn't quit as governor) and on the assumption that Sarah Palin made a political calculation in resigning.

They are simply not seeing either Sarah Palin for who she is, or what truly matters to the millions who support her, and they can't compute that there were no political calculations involved.

Her decision was one with her brand for two main reasons:

1) She's practical and holds government to the same standard. This means that when she was watching millions being spent on what seems to amount to frivolous investigations against her, she couldn't stand by and watch the money be wasted. Not only was she being hamstrung in her job, but dollars were being thrown out the window. Her frustration over this waste showed at her press conference. Not only does this point back to the sincerity of her brand and reinforce that she actually cares about every taxpayer dollar, but it puts her "quitting" in a different light -- by stepping aside and risking hurting her political career, she is actually saving Alaska money (one of her core promises she made to the people of that state).

2) She embodies family values and put them first. For the political class, a family is often an accessory, but even so, families are semi-sacred ground for the media, that is except for Sarah Palin's. By any reasonable standard, her family was dragged through the mud. The wife and mother making the announcement on July 3 was someone who could not and would not bear any more. She made a choice that came out of the deepest part of herself (her core brand) -- no wonder the political class was left scratching its collective head. They hadn't taken her claims of loving her family seriously. But the wives and mothers who make up Palin's supporters got it."

Brian72 July 10, 2009 2:38 PM  

"Fact is, as Stanley Fish over at The New York Times pointed out: if you just listened to what Palin said at her press conference, you'd understand that this was not someone making a traditional political calculation. This was someone being real about her choices and her pain.

And that's why Sarah Palin has just strengthened herself for the long run (if she ever chooses a political future). She wasn't erratic at all; she was true to the things she believes in.

Just look at her latest interview with the Associated Press:

You would be amazed at how much time and resource my staff and I, the Department of Law especially, spend on this every day. It is a waste. We are spending these millions of dollars not on teachers and troopers and roads or fish research and other things that are needed in Alaska."

She's a woman who means what she says and does what she believes. But the pundits simply aren't listening.

So let the pundits piece this out over the months and years ahead, but one thing is already clear: her base is still with her, and Sarah Palin is poised to grow.

And remember, things are always easier to understand when you keep marketing and branding in mind.

John Tantillo is a marketing and branding expert and the founder and president of Marketing Department of America"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/07/09/palin-does-right-thing/

Debtstar July 10, 2009 2:40 PM  

Someone should tell the pundits that she resigned , it's over, they don't need to be afraid anymore...

Yogi41 July 10, 2009 2:44 PM  

Illinois Conservative (Whitney),

You're going to love it (Atlas Shrugged). I'm consistently amazed at how Rand nailed everything right about progressives, right down to their hypocrisy and elitism. I swear, when I read it again during the election, it was like Ayn was writing about our state of affairs today.

Little nugget to chew on: Farrah Fawcett, before she died, said Ayn called her up when Farrah was a big star on Charlie's Angels and told Farrah that Ayn had a deal with NBC to make Atlas Shrugged into a miniseries and she wanted Farrah to play Dagney.

Although I liked Farrah, I can't see her as Dagney. :)

Illinois Conservative (Whitney) July 10, 2009 2:45 PM  

DSM-IV of Politics:

Noonanism- a disease suffered "conservatives" who don't get Sarah Palin, symptoms may include extreme pretentiousness

Cooperism- a disease suffered by liberals who don't get Sarah Palin, symptoms may include inability to understand sports analogies

jimr3 July 10, 2009 2:45 PM  

Why do I detect a little bit of snark here from Kathryn Jean Lopez in her latest post at the NRO The Corner?

“Drama Fatigue”

“I'm hearing from Alaskans who wish the Palins well but are ready to "welcome Sean and move on."

=======

Well duh, Kathryn. That was the whole point of Palin resigning. She is indeed moving on. She too is sick of the drama and the way it crippled her ability to govern.

AllInForSarah July 10, 2009 2:46 PM  

Just read the Noonan column and though it's entirely BS, I take particular umbrage with a couple of remarks. One where she says strange stuff about it being all about Sarah and ends with 'I'm, I'm, I'm...'. I've never seen such a narcissistic, ego-maniacal, let-me-see-me-on-the-TV, self-centered human than BO. 2--Noonan says Sarah "makes the party look stupid, a party of the easily manipulated". If we were easily manipulated we would have gotten drunk on O's kool-aid. Look at what the liberals did with the election--they had NO idea of who he was, yet followed him blindly to the peril of our nation. And 3--They all cavalierly spout that anyone can do and be anything they want to do and be. That would take strength of character, I would think, yet Noonan goes on to say this generation has "no proper sense of inadequacy". As if the talking-heads do?? They all got this one wrong. Go, Sarah!!

ladydawnelle July 10, 2009 2:51 PM  

I wish the fair Lady Sarah would LEAVE the Repub party !! They've not treated her much more fairly than the looney left!

Us in the middle like her just fine. We need a champion. Be ours Sarah! :-D

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 2:52 PM  
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Western July 10, 2009 2:52 PM  

Yea, Grimm's article in the bayoubuzz was a good analysis.

I never understood why the attacks on Palin continued after the election.

Most vice presidential candidates who are on the losing side in a general election, fade away.

The conventional wisdom would have been to ignore her given her location and the results of the general election.

Democrats held all the seats of power.

Axelrod and Emanuel must have been concerned for a reason.

Regarding, the Noonan's, the Frum's, the Murphy's and others, they have become obsolete and irrelevant.

If their audience is country-club republicans--so be it.

I'll take Barry Goldwater over Nelson Rockefeller any day of the week.

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 2:53 PM  
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Anonymoose July 10, 2009 2:55 PM  

Kate Obenshain defended Gov. Palin by pointing out that Noonan ("God bless her for all the good she's done") represents the elite, inside-the-Beltway approach and Gov. Palin just doesn't do it that way -- she's outside the box and does things her way, and that's why people like her.

CharterOakie July 10, 2009 2:55 PM  

"If they want to have a go at a bit of logic-free, fact-free ranting, they should be allowed to do so."

Why?

These "Olympians" who are trying to persuade likely Republican voters that Sarah Palin is an idiot believe that their only way back to power is bland "big tentism." Just power for the sake of power. Meanwhile, our country will sink further into debt, ever more beholden to the Asians to buy our Treasury bonds and send us stuff we used to make for ourselves.

Nope. Jig's up.

Sarah holds the fate of the GOP in her hand, as Tim (VO) so well explained in his recent piece.

Gird, stand and march, barbarians.

juju July 10, 2009 2:55 PM  

To: Nancy From: Peggy

You write very well my dear, with time, and a little training you might become a decent blogger. However, you have totally missed the mark why I write these articles about your Sarah Palin. It is quite simple, but probably difficult for you and your clan to understand. So, I will inform you in just a very few words.

I LIKE BEING INVITED TO DC PARTIES.

Josh Painter July 10, 2009 2:59 PM  

Ted, 9/11 caused Peggy's head to explode, and when it went back toegether, all of the wiring was FUBAR'ed. She's never been the same since.

- JP

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 3:00 PM  
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portlandon July 10, 2009 3:00 PM  

Well Peggy, If you want Palin out of the party, the grassroot base will leave with her. Be careful what you wish for you hack.

Debtstar July 10, 2009 3:01 PM  

When so many people , waste so much time on declaring a single person irrelevant, they prove themselves wrong.

It's like the first rule of holes , stop digging. But they just cant stop.

Brian72 July 10, 2009 3:04 PM  

Re: K-Lo @ The Corner, are you suprised at this comment, just before the Palin comment?

"Romneycare, the Long View [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

The governor tackled the issue in his state. He has admitted early and often it was a compromise and not meant to be a model for the nation. You don't have to want him to be president to think he deserves some credit.

07/10 01:24 PMShare"

Sticking up for RomneyCare, but Palin needs to move on?

We know where she stands.

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 3:04 PM  

Debster said..

"Someone should tell the pundits that she resigned , it's over, they don't need to be afraid anymore..."

Debster... I think they are more afraid of her now more than EVER!
Sarah has "Only Just Begun"...
Hmmmm.. Reminds of a great song! Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQvbB_OVEbE

Trying to type over a fat grey cat..LOL

AKReport July 10, 2009 3:04 PM  

lol these media goons are in a frenzy LOL!

palin 2012 baby!

Yogi41 July 10, 2009 3:06 PM  

I honestly couldn't read the whole thing. I stopped after the line "Ten months ago she was embraced with friendliness by her party."

Yeah, right, Noonan. You really embraced her, that's why you were caught off-mic saying nasty things about her on MSNBC. Quit trying to rewrite history.

But the reason these columnists are writing hit pieces now, and essentially removing her from the party, is because they know that she is about to embark on a historical takeover of the GOP and they are afraid. They know the GOP is small and getting smaller; Palin has the opportunity to re-create the GOP into a more conservative party, or leave and take a bunch of us with her.

AKReport July 10, 2009 3:12 PM  

i hope sarah goes on beck next week

that would be good.

upinak July 10, 2009 3:13 PM  

Tim, Noonan can't justifty it because she knows it will pop back up.

Memories are short unless you continually attack.. then it is set. She forgets this, maybe a tapeworm in her brain, I don't know. But the woman has issues.

Nancy July 10, 2009 3:14 PM  

Governor Palin: I CAN do anything I want to do, if I work hard, I CAN reach my goals.
Peggy Noonan: No, you MAY not.
Governor Palin: I wasn't asking for your permssion. Get out of my way.
Peggy Noonan: Ooohhhhh, she is so infuriating!

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 3:16 PM  

Maybe Noonan didn't get her "Noon"er and she is alittle uptight?...maybe...I'm just sayin'...

MarkRNY July 10, 2009 3:16 PM  

Man!

Thank God Rush is back on Monday. This Davis guy is a dud. The show ended with a caller ripping Sarah and his halfhearted, 2/3rds beltway defense of her.

Tired of people like him saying "She's got to bone up on the issues", etc. Between the leash the McCain campaign had her on and her being the Prisoner of Zenda in Alaska, when has she ever had a chance to speak about the "issues"?---except when she kicked Biden's ass in the debate!

So she said she didn't speak "Austrian" once...Wait! That was Obama! (Courtesy of Anne Coulter) Anne Coulter)

sandra July 10, 2009 3:19 PM  

I suspect Noonan would agree with a lot of "Atlas Shrugged." I haven't read it for about 45 years, however. Now I am interested in seeing it again. Thanks for the idea.

Illinois Conservative (Whitney) July 10, 2009 3:19 PM  

Juju and Nancy, You both crack me up!

wisetrog July 10, 2009 3:21 PM  

According to New majority, Peter Wehner was a key aide to Rove. That explains....something. Why did rove join on bash-Palin bandwagon?

CruelaDev July 10, 2009 3:24 PM  

I personally believe that all these so-called journalists...are jealous of Sarah because she was actually smart enough to get out of the crappy profession of journalism and move onto bigger and brighter things...

Live with worms and you become a worm!

Debtstar July 10, 2009 3:24 PM  

Wisetrog , do we know ho Rove works for today.
His opinions steers money flows, so he might bash palin to make money come his candidates way.

Nancy July 10, 2009 3:26 PM  

juju,
Thank you for bringing that letter from Peggy to my attention!:)
I think that is what it all comes down to! Not very deep is she?:)

Jenny July 10, 2009 3:27 PM  

Brian72, so basically K-Lo is saying to the people of Massachusetts screw you. You're the guinea pigs for Romney and should suffer.
WTF is wrong with her and some of the freaks at NRO?!

katiejane July 10, 2009 3:27 PM  

MarkRNY - are you saying that ole pegs is a graduate of "Fairly Ridiculous U"? How on earth could she have any sense of being a well educated intellectual?

Jenny July 10, 2009 3:27 PM  

AKReport, I hope so too. Sarah should appear on Beck's show. That will be too awesome!!

upinak July 10, 2009 3:28 PM  

wise.. Rove, the magnificently "sub-standard" bastard, is starting to see money... going a different direction.

Vadm Collingwood July 10, 2009 3:30 PM  

The only fact that Noonan knows about Gov. Palin is that there is no chance on this earth that a guy like Todd Palin would ever pay her the slightest attention; much less marry her and have 5 kids with her. Peggy, it just ain't happening; not now, not ever. You'll have to live with that.

"Really Hardy, I cannot see the signal!"

cudaforever July 10, 2009 3:32 PM  

Long Live Sarah !! I'm so sick of these pseudo-intellectuals like Peggy Noonan and their worthless opinions.

EdFab July 10, 2009 3:34 PM  

By this point in time, even before the latest Noonan hit piece (which I won't read), it should be obvious to anyone following the Sarah saga that Noonan is squarely anti-Palin. Her writing is only going to reflect this more and more, because she's thinking toward 2012 and Romney. Another person who I believe will turn anti-Palin is Laura Ingram, because I'm pretty sure she's another Romney guy. It's pretty ironic when the democrats will be able to turn to republicans to get anti-Palin material.

Personally, I couldn't care less what the republican pundits say about Sarah. She's going to be taking arrows from every which direction. And especially from republican-leaning blog like Ace and HA, and zillions of others are going to go anti-Palin, in favor of Huckabee or Romney. Morissey is no friend of Sarah, and this will become more evident in time.

Palin supporters should stop being 'saddened', 'outraged', or 'whatever' about this development. Just ignore the SOBs.

That's just me.

The entire republican party, its pundits, its strategists, etc., could all drop off the end of the earth for all I care. Sarah has something those people have never had or have lost: goodness and honesty. I recognize it in her, and I also recognize the exact opposte in her opposition, which consists of the lifelong class of conniving, duplicitious, double-dealing politicians and the perrenial pundits who idolize them. Noonan is a vulture who thrives on carrion, and every now and then she lifts up her beak and squawks angrily at Sarah, who is vibrant and energizingly alive.

If I wanted to, I could take the time and painstaking effort to debate with various anti-Palin types, but I'm not selfless like she is. The rabid anti-Palin types simply aren't worth debating with, as far as I'm concerned. In fact, internally I've already dehumanized the Noonans and Dowds, and metaphorically see them as vile orc-like creatures living under mushrooms that want to bring down the sun and live in eternal darkness.

I'm only rambling on with this post because I want Palin supporters to see the new reality: Palin is not a republican, republicans are not for Palin, the GOP is not for Palin.

Let's stop getting surprised at people like Noonan. Let's just ignore her. Let's just not read her. Of all the things you can do to a journalist, not reading them, ignoring them, is the equivalent of a death blow.

That's what I do.

That's another reason why I'll rant from time to time about banning the trolls that show up here. They are to be ignored, not parried with, obliterated not reasoned with, metaphorically killed not merely wounded.

Just my two cents.

wilsonpickett July 10, 2009 3:35 PM  

At this moment precisely one week ago, Governor Palin made the announcement that echoed around the nation, somehow drowning out the continuous memorializing of singer Michael Jackson.

So many words have been uttered from every source imaginable about what this means, how stupid Sarah Palin is, what is she going to do now, how can you can be a "quitter" and expect to have any future national political life, etc., etc., etc.

I think C4P readers should quietly step back and reflect on what the Governor accomplished in one fell swoop a week ago and how she out-smarted the so-called brightest politicians and news-media moguls in the country.

Even the way in which she did the announcement -- although ostracized by many of the pundits and media "experts" -- accomplished exactly what she wanted. As Meg Stapleton has said, her primary audience was Alaskans, not the national news media although they knew the story would be picked up.

The Sarah and Meg Show strategy for July 3 -- on the eve of Independence Day (a symbol of Governor Palin's independence) -- was brilliant. Because it was a 3-day holiday weekend, she dominated the TV programs for hours once the network folks breathlessly got their hands on the footage. And then to think that NBC, ABC, CNN, Fox and Time flew reporters and camera crews thousands of miles to Anchorage, then had to fly or drive another 300 miles to Dillingham to be able to interview The Barracuda in her waders on the commercial fishing boat.... that was priceless! The image of Sarah the Commercial Fisherman in waders is something that will stick with fans, critics, and possible voters for years.

(In fact, if the Governor does someday decide to run for the Presidency, I think an official "Go Sarah" C4P wader could become part of a lineup of specialty items to be purchased. Can you imagine groups of supporters showing up at political rallies in their C4P waders? Sarah would love it and want her picture taken with them every time.)

Anyway, in reflection, I think what we witnessed was the country mouse outsmarting the city mice.... The Arctic Fox out-foxing the hunters..... The Godmother making the first move to force GOP candidates to come begging and kiss her ring in order to convince her to come to rallies and raise money in their respective states.

The Beltway "intellectuals" who describe the Governor's remarks as "incoherent" and "disjointed" and "something of a car wreck" must have never learned to interpret plain English from the heartland.

As someone who has spent years working with corporate CEOs and vice presidents, prepping them for major news conferences and media tours, I am amazed at how tightly Governor Palin stuck to her talking points in the national interviews from near the fishing boat.

If you go back and listen, her answers in the interviews with NBC, ABC and CNN were almost identical -- no matter how the questions were framed. In other words, Governor Palin -- rather than the reporters -- controlled the content of the interviews. Interestingly, she expanded a little more with the Fox interview, I think, because she knows her audience. Fox viewers are different than the others, so she criticized Obama and the Washington crowd more in that interview. Overall, she was masterful; she gave them good, credible sound bites but never told any of them anything she didn't want to.

This woman is so much smarter and more savvy than they realized nor have yet figured out. She was several steps ahead of them in the way the July Fourth weekend was handled -- by design, not by accident.

BTW, she really did use a teleprompter, but she is so competent and seamless, we didn't even realize it. I saw the combo TV camera/teleprompter -- the kind found in TV news studios -- in one of the photos on the Anchorage Daily News web site.

This weekend, let's all raise a toast to the performance of Governor Sarah Palin one week ago and to her new era of "independence."

Brian72 July 10, 2009 3:36 PM  

From the Weekly Standard Blog:




"Hawks Like Palin

Rasmussen does the breakdown:

Alaska Governor Sarah Palin is the top choice for those Republicans who put national security first and ties Romney for first among voters who list economic issues alone as the priority.

In a perfect world national security conservatives would probably choose Cheney as the 2012 nominee, but he wasn't on the Rasmussen list, and folks shouldn't be terribly surprised that Palin comes out on top in this breakdown. Mitt did wave the white flag on Iraq, and Huckabee isn't exactly a foreign policy titan. National security conservatives mostly went with McCain in '08, and Romney will have to court them aggressively (which to his credit, he is doing) if he wants to gain their support for a run in 2012.

HT: Greg Sargent
Posted by Michael Goldfarb at 12:48 PM
| E-mail the author | E-mail article "

How about that. National Security voters like Palin the best.

Nancy July 10, 2009 3:36 PM  

Senator Obama: I CAN reach my goals!
Beltway Elite: Not so fast there, skippy!
Senator Obama: My bad, um, MAY I try to reach higher office? Please?
Beltway Elite: Let's just see your resume. Mmmm, check,
That is a check. Good, good, check. Looks good here, check.
Senator Obama: So, MAY I try for the presidency?
Beltway Elite: Yes you may, BUT! Only because WE said you MAY. Don't ever forget that.

MarkRNY July 10, 2009 3:41 PM  

katiejane-You know it's nickname!

Maybe Peg hung out in a bar with a very wise bartender between classes. I think she should put a cork in the bottle now though.

CharterOakie July 10, 2009 3:53 PM  

Ladydawnelle:

I think I noticed from your posts elsewhere that you're perhaps a PUMA, but willing to listen to some conservatives (or at least C4P types). Not that it's up to me, but welcome. You and many others with your sympathies contribute to the reason why the power structures of both major parties fear and resent Sarah. She can draw voters in great numbers from both parties, and they know it.

I suspect that Sarah will bide her time and watch. If the GOP elites are determined to marginalize her and crater their own party, then the blood in on their hands, not hers. At that point millions of conservative patriots (I consider myself one) will desert the GOP, probably for keeps and go with Sarah. And millions of non-loony Dem voters (e.g. Reagan democrats and PUMAs) will go with her, too. That is a political force with the potential to reorder the landscape for years to come.

Sarah has the magnetism (and of course so much more) to do what Perot came close to doing in '92.

If the GOP is unable or unwilling to get back to its conservative, constitutionalist, America-first roots and recognize the gift that Sarah Palin is to the party, then there may be no choice but to waive goodbye to a rump of globalists and clubbie pubbies on the one side, and the loony left wackos on the other side.

American patriots in the "middle" and in power.

That's how I see it.

Nancy July 10, 2009 3:55 PM  

Governor Palin: Come on, Peggy, join me outside the box! I would love for you to see America as I see it! It. Is. Beautiful. There is so much to do and so many that are yearning to work together to get it done!
Peggy Noonan: You are too stupid.
Governor Palin: Hhmmm, coming from someone who is still inside the box, okay. Tell us when you want us to punch another hole in the side, to get you some more air.
Kathleen Parker: It'll be a cold day in hell, before we ever climb out of this box! Stupid hillbilly.
Peggy Noonan: Hey, move your elbow, I want to type another column on what an idiot that woman is.

Brian72 July 10, 2009 4:05 PM  

Third party talk is not serious.
It will never work, never.

The best course of action is to do what Ronald Reagan did. Work within the Republican Party to make into what it is supposed to be.

The DC Republican establishment can gripe and whine about Sarah all they want. If the base of the Party sticks with her, which all indications right now say they are, then they must come crawling to Sarah.
They will have no choice, because what the hell good is a top down party structure with no voters?
If Sarah has the voters, they MUST come to her.
She knows this, and they know this.

That is why they are so terrified of her, because she has the grassroots behind her, and they have to have the grassroots to win anything.

Sarah can literally steal the Republican voters out from under the elites, and they will have no choice but to follow us to her.

They are trying to prevent this from happening while they still have a chance, but I think it's already too late.

If Sarah is not in the 2012 race, the candidates who are will be desperate for her endorsement, and for her to appear with them in the primaries. If she is in, they are in BIG trouble. They know this as well.

This pre-emptive strike against Sarah that began the week before the election has not let up.

They fear her, they fear US.

The Louisiana pollster has it exactly right.

Let's take the Republican Party away from these Beltway Boys, and give it to Sarah, and watch them grovel and beg for forgiveness!

Third Party will not work.

manajordan July 10, 2009 4:08 PM  

Yes, by all means lets have a big tent party. When all those Conservatives are kicked out there will be plenty of room.
I'm so happy that Rush and Beck will both be back next week. I can't wait to hear them rip into both parties.

ladydawnelle July 10, 2009 4:10 PM  

CharterOakie,

Thanks and you are right I'm a PUMA UNA as of a year ago MAY.

I did vote for Perot twice but did like Bill C. Wanted Gen Clark (twice) but was talked into voting for Kerry - loser. Yes I never much liked the Bush's.

I did like Reagan (and Goldwater) but don't think I voted for Ronnie (I joined the military under Carter) .

My memory is going from way back then. but recently I turned to Hillary after Clark asked us to check her out.

It progressed from Hillary to Sarah after I witnessed the MSM and blogger hate towards both women. And the racist innuendo being thrown at the Clinton's just made me CRAZY!

Sarah is also quite like myself in many ways. (although I'm pro-choice)

Heather July 10, 2009 4:10 PM  

Peggy Noonan has worked very hard to get away from her lace curtain New Joisey background to the "intellectual" and financial heights of the Beltway ... and OMG!!! Sarah Palin is a national figure WITHOUT forgetting her roots and family, without bowing to the Media Grandees in New York.

No wonder Noonan hates Palin: Palin has never lost her moral compass, and STILL is a success.

Brian72 July 10, 2009 4:12 PM  

Nobody is going to successfully have a Republican Party without conservative grassroots.

A good chunk of Democrat voters are alarmed at the proposals of the Obama administration, and this is wide open for exploitation by a charismatic, pragmatic, fiscal conservative candidate with crossover appeal.
Sound like anyone you know?

veritas July 10, 2009 4:16 PM  

Mitt and K-Lo need to get their story straight on Romneycare. Just yesterday he gave it an "A" and touted it as a model for the rest of the nation. Today, she's saying he had to compromise and that he never meant it to be a model for the rest of the country. So what is it?

In many ways Romney is the perfect foil if Sarah runs in 2012. Let the establishment coalesce around him.

veritas July 10, 2009 4:19 PM  

In case anybody wants the link to Romney on Romneycare yesterday...

http://tiny.cc/KYBoD

blerch July 10, 2009 4:25 PM  

The thing about Noonan's PDS that is puzzling and disappointing is that she used to work for Reagan. Every single bad thing that is being said about Sarah today by the left and the country club Republicans was said about Reagan 30 years ago. Peggy should know better. I used to be a fan of hers and it's ashame to see what she has become.

juju July 10, 2009 4:25 PM  

Barry Goldwater, Jr. just gave Sarah a BIG shout out on FNC.

chspats2006 July 10, 2009 4:28 PM  

A lot of good comments on this post. But I still wish to see one day Peggy Noonan get smacked down with the facts on Sarah on a highly watched cable news show...Glenn Beck's show perhaps?

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 4:28 PM  

A couple of things. This site is fantastic and I am a proud Democrat and supporter of Obama. A lot of the myths and preconceived notions I had about Sarah Palin have been dispelled. While I still don't agree with her policies, I respect her for hwat she has been able to accomplish in Alaska as well as for enduring the intense media scrutiny. However, there are a couple of things that people are missing if you are looking for Sarah Palin to run for President. EdFab has the most insightful post so far in this thread. Her best chance to win the presidency is by establishing a third party. Karl Rove, Peggy Noonan, David Frum etc. are some of the architects of the modern conservative movement when it comes to politics and elected offices. Sarah Palin has to recruit these types of beltway insiders if she legitimately wants a chance to win the Presidency. She knows this which is why she reached out to Dick Cheney and Charlie Crist before she resigned from office. She models herself as a Reagan like conservative. It is not a good sign if Reagan's speechwriter (Peggy Noonan for those of you who didn't know that) does not hold you in high regard. She does have Bill Kristol on her side, but Bill Kristol was a big Dan Quayle guy and we all know how that went.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 4:29 PM  

You may be asking why the GOP elite is against Governor Palin? Well the answer is two fold. The first is practical. As it looks now, Sarah Palin will not have enough votes in a general election to win the Presidency. She has a strong, rabid base which is key to winning the primary, but she doesn't have any sway with gays, blacks, hispanics, women nor moderates despite what the latest polls say. Attracting moderates is the key. Her social views (please correct me if I'm wrong but she is anti-gay marriage, anti-immigration, anti-affirmative action and anti-abortion) in a time where changing demographics show that there are more gays, hispanics, blacks and women voting now than ever. For some reason, she is not popular with women either atleast looking at the results from the last election where less women voted for the McCain/Palin ticket than the Obama/Biden ticket. This leads us to the second reason why the GOP can't endorse her. GOP intellectuals realize that Democrats have done an excellent job of indeed painting them as the party of no. Conservatives are looked at as being anti-education, anti-minority and anti-progression in general. If you look at the demographics of our counry, we are becoming, younger, more diverse and more informed. Like it or not, as boisterous and vociferous as teh Palin rallies were during the campaign, there were racial overtones. "He's a terrorist", "kill him", "He's an Arab" and monkeys with neuses around their necks are just a few of the things that were attached to her rallies and the McCain/Palin campaign in general. GOP elites realize that you can't jus tappeal to a hardcore conservative base to win a general election. You have to appeal to a broader variety of people. I think it's an excellent strategic move on her part in using Facebook and Twitter. However, for her success, I advocate her getting a whole new team of advisors who know the DC political landscape. If this is viewed as selling out her grassroots constituency then her only other option is to start another politcal party. In my opinion, it would take 10 years for their to be a viable third party so I think her best bet is 2016 or 2020 if that is the rout she is looking to take. I love this blog. It has been a source of some of the most frank and outright political dialogue I have had in awhile.

TexMex July 10, 2009 4:33 PM  

Who is the audience that Noonan, Frum and 3/4 of NRO's staff are addressing?

Liberal democrats? They won't vote republican no matter who the GOP runs in 2012.

Rockefeller Repubs? They didn't like Palin before and they don't like her now.

So that leaves us, the GOP base. Noonan et al are telling us that Palin simply cannot be the 2012 candidate or leader of the GOP or a powerful spokesperson for the conservative movement. Okay. Fine. Don't vote for her in the primaries. But that said, their vote doesn't carry more weight than our votes. 1 person = 1 vote. What galls me is that they won't let her throw her hat into the ring. They don't want her to compete for OUR votes at all. They see themselves as the gatekeepers to the primaries. They're not. If they truly believe that she shouldn't be a candidate for higher office then point out her POLICIES that hurt the party, the country. They can't do that. Instead they go after aesthetics.

That's not a legitimate reason to vote against her. Should she run I will vote for her. I imagine a lot of other people will too. Noonan, Frum, NRO, can cast their votes anyway they wish. They just need to realize their combined votes won't be enough to make Palin go away.

love777 July 10, 2009 4:34 PM  

One thing intellectual elite needs to know by now - the public is tired of teleprompter speeches. These speeches are fake, not sincere, out of touch and annoying. Without a teleprompter they can only say "ah, hmmm".

Harvard graduates are failing basic communication skills.

Nothing and nobody will stop Sarah. Her fame comes naturally, b/c she is a real person.

Western July 10, 2009 4:41 PM  

Kwaisi:

You better worry about Obama and his agenda.

The 2010 and 2012 election will be a referendum on Obama's economic and financial policies, which by the way are dividing the Democratic party.

Voters in Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina, Virginia and Florida did not vote this kind of change.

A vast majority of polls indicate this country is by a 2 to 1 margin moderate/conservative than liberal.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 4:43 PM  

Atlas Shrugged is a great book, but you have to remember when it was written though. '57 was the height of the Cold War when Socialism and russia were seen as a real threat. The very fact that Socialism and this administration are being used in the same vein is absurd. Socialism can be defined as economic organization advocating state or cooperative ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal opportunities/means for all individuals with a more egalitarian method of compensation. This administration has gone about opening up new roads that haven't been travelled in 0 years because of the us vs. them mentality that was a result of Cold War rhetoric. For more understanding read the Communist Manifesto. Then compare that to what we have in our Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and all are endowed by our creator certain inalienable rights of which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." That's a fairly socialist statement if you remove by our creator and replace it with nature.

Debtstar July 10, 2009 4:45 PM  

Kwaisi , socialism was the dream of his father , and that where things are heading.

Atlas Shrugs is a manual for whats happening.

A July 10, 2009 4:51 PM  

But,

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/esteri/foto-leader-g8/4.html

narciso July 10, 2009 4:52 PM  

Kwaisi, with all due respect, you don't seem to have learned much from this site, she is for
responsible immigrationenforcement,
which some people here call too wishy washy, she approved gay rights by a veto back in Alaska.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 4:53 PM  

Western - I am very worried right now, but he gets a full 4 years to enact policy and another 18 months before he really has to startcampaigning for the presidency again. I agree the midterm elections and the next presidential election will be a referendum on his policies. However, if cap and trade reduces CO2 emissions or better yet will create a market of clean, efficient companies due to payments polluting companies will have to make to them. That will be seen as capitalism and not another example of state interfering in business. If Sotomayor gets confirmed this summer, that will be a win. If he can pass his health care referendum, that will be a win. He has alrready won in Iran by simply doing nothing in spite of Republicans wanting him to be firm and strong which hasn't worked in Iran in 30 years. Personally, I don't think Palin is a threat to Obama. To use a sports analogy, Obama is teh 1 seed who struggles in the first two rounds of the NCAA tourney. Palin is the 12 seed that beat the 4 in the first round (disastrous McCain Campaign) and the 5 in the second round (escaping Alaska to become national) While she is a force to be reckoned with, she doesn't have the pedigree or the experience of the incumbent president. I like Palin because there has to be a strong opposition party in order for their to be good government, and while erratic and unconventional, i like her tactics. The political spectrum is much better now that Sarah Palin has entered it.

blerch July 10, 2009 4:53 PM  

Kwaisi-
It's nice to see an intellectually honest Democrat who is willing to have a reasoned discussion. There don't seem to be many of you left. I disagree with a few of your points. I believe a third party is political suicide. It may have been possible to launch a third party effort 150 years ago, but today it is not. As much as us grassroots conservatives dislike the GOP establishment in DC today, most of us acknowledge that the conservative agenda has to be advanced within the Republican party.

As far as Noonan, Frum, and Rove-Noonan is a has-been and Frum is not nearly as important as some think he is. Their disapproval of Palin means absolutely nothing. Rove is another story. However, he is not in the same category as them. He is on record as saying he is a Palin fan. He has simply questioned the strategy of leaving the Governorship early if she wants to be a viable POTUS candidate in 2012 or beyond. Rove is on the right side and will eventually see that she made the right decision. Noonan and Frum are emotionally invested in trashing Sarah, so they will never come around.

The demographics point is a fair one, but not one that can't be overcome. Remember, the conventional widsom was that Reagan only appealed to the fringe of the Republican base and could never appeal to moderates and Dems. He had no chance to be the Repub nominee, let alone ever win a general election. He proved everyone wrong about that point and now Reagan Democrat is in our everyday political language. My prediction is that in a few years time Palin Democrat will be just as common.

MarkRNY July 10, 2009 4:55 PM  

Heather-I think you hit the nail on the head with Peggy.

juju-Saw that Goldwater endorsement. No "She has to do a lot of reading and get past the image she has...", etc. qualifiers either.

Kwaisi-Replacing "Creator" with "Nature" leads to Auschwitz.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 4:56 PM  

Narciso - Can you define responsible immigration enforcement for me? What does she mean? Also, what about abortion, affirmative action and gay rights issues. The president doesn't believe in gay marriage, but he extended rights to partners though. Is she willing to go that far? I am not up to speed on what she vetoed in Alaska. Please inform. Thanks

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 5:01 PM  

Blerch - Thanks for the post. How will she overcome these obstacles. There has been rejoicing and rightfully so by many conservatives over the drop in Obama's popularity. It's still a very robust 56%, and this is before Sotomayor has been confirmed and healthcare has been legislated.

Mark - I see how you could misinterpret inserting nature for creator and it becoming a judgement for men. I was using nature more in the terms of socialism's disdain for organized religion. Socialism would say that we are all created equal because we are equal and not because God made us that way.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 5:06 PM  

Blerch - Thanks for the compliment. I'm here to learn from you guys. As a very liberal democrat, the conservative message makes sense to me. I don't see how it couldn't make sense to anyone. The problem you guys are having is defining clearly what your message is and how it is being delivered. Palin can clearly and concisely deliver that message, but with the way America is today, she will not win against a message of inclusion of everyone as we move forward together that Democrats have succesfully packaged.

Debstar - Bush 1 wanted to remove Saddam from power, but knew better than to invade Iraq. Bush 2 tried to "finish the job" How did that work?

If Obama's dad wanted everyone to have health insurance, companies to stop polluting, and us to take a look at some of our ridiculously antiquated foreign policy positions, then I am not only for Obama, but for his dad also.

alwaysfiredup July 10, 2009 5:15 PM  

Kwaisi, you are missing the forest for the trees. In the short term, maybe, all Zero has to do is pass "health care reform." But his re-election chances will depend on that reform actually helping out a large number of Americans. the way the proposals look now, just as many currently-insured people are going to lose their existing health coverage as currently-uninsureds are going to gain it. Costs will vastly overrun estimates and he'll have to raise taxes to avoid gaping budget holesd. So to say "passing health refirm is a win" is only accurate in 2009. By 2012 it may be that it would have been better not to pass anything at all.

Your opinions as a privileged east coast liberal on what the GOP should do to rebuild are noted.

Brian72 July 10, 2009 5:23 PM  

Kwaisi:

In regard to your referencing The Declaration of Independence, it is in no way anything close to a socialist statement.
It states that we all have inalienable rights granted to us by our creator, and those rights are to be equally applied under the law.
However, it does nothing to say that you should be rewarded equally regardless of effort put forth, as socialism does.
"To each according to his need, from each according to his ability".

Barack Obama has a very troubling view of the Constitution of the United States, as was demonstrated by an audio tape that was publicized just a few days before the election.

He was being interviewed by a local radio station in 2001, and the conversation was about the Supreme Court and how it handled desegregation.
This statement is very worrisome to me:

"But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society.
To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical.
It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the States can't do to you.
Says what the Federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn't shifted."
Barack Obama, 2001.

That is worrisome, that he thinks the Supreme Court's job is to "break free from the constraints" placed on the government by the Fathers of the Constitution.

To what end? Redistribution of wealth, political and economic justice.

That is socialism, period.

Our Constitution is a document of limited government, and he staes clearly here his belief that the greatest democratic charter in the world is fundamentally flawed, and the Supreme Court should "break free" from it.

Nobody voted for this, and the more people see what he really wants to do, the more will abandon him in the polling.

It has just begun.

manajordan July 10, 2009 5:32 PM  

Kwaisi,

I always appreciate respectful debate. Thanks for being that way. I think a book that helped me understand both sides of ideology was Thomas Sowell's A Conflict of Visions. I highly recommend it to anyone.
One of the things I admire most about Sarah Palin is here strict adherence to the Alaska Constitution. Her respect for that document is something she spoke about before she was ever in the running for Governor. Her respect for the Constitution also led her to make what some considered controversial decisions such as the rights for gay couples already mentioned here, also in her recent choice for the Alaska Supreme Court. She has the same respect for the U.S. Constitution.
Thanks again for your respectful commentary.

blerch July 10, 2009 5:36 PM  

Kwaisi-
Obama's approval has dropped considerably since taking office and there is also a disconnect between his personal popularity and his policies. People like him and are willing to give him a chance, but there are becoming increasingly skeptical of his polices, especially among moderates and indies. Jimmy Cater came into office with a 75% approval rating and was seen as a new kind of politician who was going to bring great change to Washington. Sound familiar? When his policies turned out to be a disaster, people turned on him. That led independents and some Dems to take a look at Reagan. When they saw a charismatic leader who was genuine and optimistic about the future, they decided to give him a chance. I'll bet you many of those people never would have considered voting for a Republican in 1977, but they did by the millions in 1980. If Obama and the Dems in Congress continue on this path, Sarah's message of smaller government, fiscal restraint, lower taxes, energy independence, and strong national defense will resonate with much of the electorate, and lead to many people who today would never consider voting for a Republican to vote for one in 2012. Sarah's common-sense consrvative message applies to Americans of all races, religions, etc. It is the furthest thing from exclusive.

juju July 10, 2009 5:46 PM  

Kwaisi: I only have one small comment for you because most things were covered by others.

If you think OBAMA will be praised for passing cap and trade I think you will be very disappointed. I believe most people in 3 years will see that as they should: CAP AND TAX.

The only reason he really wants that bill, because he knows without India and China conformance to air pollution it will have little or no affect on anything regarding our climate. It is nothing more then a "piggy bank" for the government. When the government wants more money for their pet projects all they will have to do is make an adjustment in the fee
structure of CAP & TAX.

wisetrog July 10, 2009 6:03 PM  

narciso, Cathy Young wrote a column slamming Sarah Palin in Reason online, so that's libertarian venue two. I thought libertarians liked her, instapundit does. Did all the libertarians conference call?

Sapwolf July 10, 2009 6:07 PM  

Noonan has become the right's Maureen Dowd.

A RINO Harpy.

Self-delusional, flaky, longing for the glory days, lazy b***h.

Parker and Noonan are dispicable.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 6:28 PM  

Blerch - From Ethan Porter:

"What makes Obama different from Carter and is that Obama, first of all, sets achievable goals. Sometimes too achievable–closing Guantanamo, for instance, without necessarily ending the practice of indefinite detention. But the consequence is that his speeches, lofty though they may be, are grounded in political reality (his recitation of specific pledges during his DNC speech is a case in point). Moreover, he knows his pledges won’t stand a chance of being realized without a sharp Congressional team; unlike Carter, who famously bungled his relationship with the Hill, Obama is a bourgeoning master at Hill-White House relations. Obama also knows how to wrap his criticism in the language of love. It was often unremarked upon how his presidential campaign functioned as sharp rebuke to our recent way of life. It went unremarked because Obama spoke incessantly of what made America special. While doing so, he ran against not Hillary and McCain, but against everything in our politics since…

well, since Ronald Reagan, who displaced Carter and whom Obama has spoken highly of. What I think appeals to Obama about Reagan is the way in which he suffused his presidency, and his era, with an air of national purpose. It’s that purpose which Carter lacked. It’s that purpose which Obama strives to create."

http://trueslant.com/ethanporter/2009/06/29/why-obama-is-not-jimmy-carter/

The question is and it is one that you raised concerning his popularity with everyone, is can Sarah Palin navigate the political minefield that is Washington D.C.? Carter couldn't though he was well intentioned.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 6:29 PM  

juju - I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. It will be a cap and tax bill and will be a piggy bank for the government while controlling/decreasin pollution levels. How is this a bad thing?

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 6:31 PM  

manajordan - Thanks for the post. You are viewing the Constitution as a document that does not live and change with the times. Obama, myself and many others of us believe that the Constituion has and does change with time. Whose right and whose wrong really depends upon which political party you belong to.

Kwaisi July 10, 2009 6:39 PM  

Brian72 - The Egalitarian principles of the Declaration of Independence and our American Revolution are the roots of socialism. How is a government "of the people, by the people and for the people" not the same as advocating the proletariat and it's agenda ahead of those of the bourgeoisie. Many of you have complained about the "class" system that exists within the country and how the working man doesn't get a fair chance. Many Russians a century ago complained about the same things that you all complain abut here. The words intellectual, elite and aristocracy are thrown around as negatives. The yare negatives according to Marx and Engels also. I'm not a socialist though I do agree with some of its principles. It just doesn't work in a country as large and ethnically divers as the US. Don't doubt for a minute that the creators of the Constitution didn't anticipate on it being interpreted, scrutinized and altered by the people and for the people.

Also, are you saying that it's not the job of the Constitution to protect the will of the people and to insure a fair and just society. It seems to me that is what Obama was saying in that statement.

EGA July 10, 2009 7:00 PM  

My comments left on the Wall Street Journal site for Peggy Noonan:

Peggy,

I have always loved the way you write. The lyrical nature of your words, how you constructed thought and image. Some of the speeches you have written are moving and memorable. Your veneration of Reagan and your participation in that revolution have always given me a warm feeling about you. But I have to say, with all due respect.

You are an elitist snob that took it personally that your "establishment" friends and colleagues were passed over when Palin was selected and it has so clouded your thought and judgment that all you are left with is an argument that boils down to "she's not smart enough." You would think it's high school and she's the pretty prom queen who you are trying to rationalize and bring down in your mind as she gets what she wants from everyone else, respect, attention and affection.

You are so clouded in your vision and judgment that you cannot see her life for what it is; genuine, American and quintessentially conservative.

Just keep writing for the mainstream media and attending your "elite" lunch and dinner parties where you and the other "masters of the universe" discuss "the little people." In the mean time, we conservatives have FINALLY found a standard bearer that can bring the heat and will not flinch. I'm sure when the time comes you can submit your resume to write those wonderful speeches for the next true conservative to occupy the White House.

CharterOakie July 10, 2009 7:03 PM  

Brian72:

You argue well. I don't advocate a 3rd party per se. Perot ran as an independent in '92, btw. I know he wasn't Reagan, but he was (and remains) a patriot, undeniably. He correctly warned that the two parties where owned by their lobbyists and special interest groups to the detriment of the average citizen, and he also sounded the alarm as to where this country was headed financially with our disastrous trade policy and out of control federal spending. (We had *only* a $3 trillion national debt then.)

It may be that the two mainstream parties have conspired to make ballot access for independents even more difficult since '92, I'm not sure. But to say that a third way (or party) is impossible or will never work seems to me to be overstated.

As I've said elsewhere, my hope and preference is that Sarah and we can indeed reclaim the GOP. But it's not a sure thing, and 1980 was a long time ago. The globalists have their hooks in VERY deep now (into both parties, to be sure).

The aspect that methinks you may not be adequately pondering is the sheer voting power (w/o undue ideological dilution) represented by the PUMAs, Reagan democracts and Independents. Millions of them will vote for an honest conservative independent. Far fewer will vote for the party, regardless of its nominee, that is most closely identified with the policies that send their jobs and their sons overseas. Talking about the neocons and globalists that rule the GOP, take conservatives for granted, and drive millions of Americans (not including me) to vote for the Ds, even if it means sharing a convention hall with wackos and miscreants, which I could never do.

There are more independents, PUMAs and Reagan democrats to be gained than there are clubbie pubbies and neocons to be lost.

The math is compelling even if the logistics and dynamics are prohibitive.

Let's hope that the GOP bosses come to their senses before they blow up the party for good. I'm not certain they will or can, and I'm betting that Sarah is skeptical also.

Certainly we need to make it clear that we're not going to continue with their game: "choose door number one because even though you won't be happy with it, you REALLY despise what's behind door number 2."

Heads they win, tails we lose. Same old schmitt, and the country continues on its current pathway to ruin, simply changing the beltway guard every 4-8 years.

CharterOakie July 10, 2009 7:09 PM  

Kwaisi:
I tried but failed to post yesterday in response to your comments about Palin's education, intelligence, etc. Perhaps I can find the verbiage and get it posted later. Gotta go for now.

manajordan July 10, 2009 7:53 PM  

Kwaisi,
You are correct. I fall under the constrained vision, you the unconstrained vision. Again Thomas Sowell explains the difference amazingly well.
I actually don't claim a political party right now, I have voted for both parties in the past based on who I thought best represented my beliefs.

NoMoRino's July 10, 2009 9:17 PM  

TWO WORDS: Peggy Noonan
FOUR WORDS: Worthless piece of trash

THREE WORDS: Beltway media whore

FIVE WORDS: Old, tired, yesterday, Reagan reject

If it wasn't for the circle of media slime in the NYC/DC cabal these losers like Noonan/Frum/Brooks/Parker/Krauthammer/Lowery/Buckley would be unheard of.

Can you imagine these snobs at their little cocktail parties?

ONE WORD: VOMIT!!

1-20-13, The people....did you hear me Noonan/Todd etc.? The Flyover people will show up in D.C. in droves to enjoy your rejection and the return to 'small town' values.

This is for you Colin Powell:
SMALL TOWN VALUES, SMALL TOWN VALUES, SMALL TOWN VALUES. :-)

What is wrong with these "men" in the media? I've never seen "men" act this way (slavishly almost) swoon over Obama like they are teenagers in love or something (like Harry Smith, or Brian Williams). SICK.

quasar July 10, 2009 10:24 PM  

Nancy, No need for head shaking on this. This coming cycle, Gov. Palin will REALLY have the power to go right over the MSM head and directly to the American peeps. Noonan et.al. are completely flummoxed by this. Noonan knows, and Gov. Palin knows that she knows that the Rino punditry class is destined for the "ash heap" of relevent political conversation.

napsalot July 10, 2009 10:33 PM  

This nonsense from Noonan immediately reminded me of the TIME article I just read..."Where is Sarah Palin Going Next" .. which I actually liked a lot. One of the lines in there describing part of her appeal to conservatives was..."She hates on the media, never forgets the troops and is a walking middle finger to the BosNYWash Ʃlite."

Well, as far as I'm concerned Peggy Noonon has finally confirmed to me that she is now just one of those BosNYWash elites, and if Sarah has this irrational effect on her then Good!...I hope she stews in it for many years to come!

Bill in Baltimore July 10, 2009 10:57 PM  

NoMoRinos,

you said:
>>What is wrong with these "men" in the media?

I'm with you. They are twisted.

With friends like these, who needs enemies ?

Art Telles July 11, 2009 12:55 AM  

Why doesn't Peggy Noonan get it?

Sarah Palin is an individualist - "if I die I die" (politically)... she is not a collectivist.

George Bush may have been a very good man, but he wasn't a leader... a good manager, maybe, but not a leader.

Sarah is a good woman AND a leader, and apparently knows when to pass the ball for the good of team Alaska and team America.

So, why does Peggo Noonan continue to vilify Sarah Palin?

Sarah is an individualist... and for that she is attacked.

T. D. July 11, 2009 3:03 AM  

Poor Peggy Noonan. People seem to pay attention to her any more only when she attacks Gov. Palin.

On the first day of publication of today's anti-Palin column she already has over 570 comments at the WSJ site. Compare that with her recent column numbers:

51 comments - for her July 3, 2009 column
179 comments - for her June 26, 2009 column
167 comments - for her June 29, 2009 column
108 comments - for her June 12, 2009 column
0 comments - for her June 5, 2009 column
1 comment - for her May 29, 2009 column

T. D. July 11, 2009 4:01 AM  

Just to be fair, the WSJ forum lists comments not connected directly to the columns list.

Noonan's June 5, 2009 column has 74 comments in the forum, and the May 29, 2009 column has 488 comments in the forum. So, May 29 on Sotomayor more than quadruples Noonan's 115 comment average for columns from June 5 to July 3. But, has already been surpassed by the current column on just the first day of comments.

Vincent Jappi July 11, 2009 11:48 AM  
This post has been removed by the author.
Vincent Jappi July 11, 2009 11:52 AM  

Noonan has always been one of the most boring and irrelevant columnists, as she expressed the mindset which reigns within the self-proclaimed political elite and is alien to normal people.

But here, she simply discredits herself as a political analyst, as the arguments she puts forward against Sarah actually refute her critics, and she ignores basic political facts of the issue she purports to comment upon:
Sarah's efficiency as a governor, and the continuous hate campaign organized against her by the Socialists.

Such a thorough breakdown of the intellect calls for a psychological explanation.

Sharbuster July 11, 2009 7:50 PM  

Kwaisi,

The reason cap and tax is sooo bad is due to the fact that it is going to raise the cost of electricity, the cost of living and etc. As a person that is unemployed at the moment due to the severe economic downturn, the last thing that I need is to live in the dark because I could not afford the keep my lights on.In theroy, cap and trade sounds good until you get to the nuts and bolts of the matter, the funding of this catastrophe would be horrendous, and for a president that promised not to raise taxes on anyone making under 200,000 or whatever it is now, this is going beyond breaking that promise, those that are in poverty are going to be a lot futher in when they have to light candles in the house just to read. If you think I'm exagerating, I'm not. As it stands now, if I was not getting help from my mother, I would be in the dark, and don't take this as whining, I know I'll be out of this situation one day, but until then... It is nice to chat with someone from the left that does freak out when people discuss the shortcomings of the sitting president, I look forward to reading more from you.

Hypocrasy Reigns July 11, 2009 8:34 PM  

Finally, some substantive discussion with a thoughtful philosophical debate. I, too, like this site and have learned much more about Sarah Palin's positions and accomplishments in Alaska, but often get bored and turned off by the tendency for some on this site to resort to name-calling and stereotyping anyone who is not cheerleading Palin. Thank you Kwaisi for bringing this discussion to this forum.

I have voted both Repub and Democrat over the years. Was raised in a Repub family but have gotten more and more turned off in the past 5 years. I like to hear both sides of an issue and think there is much to learn by converstions from conservatives and libs. That is what America is about-thoughtful, respectful debate. Thanks to all who are engaging.

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