Conservatives, Republican Primaries, and Governor Palin
Some people, I’m told, have ideas pop into their heads when they’re in the shower, others while driving. Personally, mine occur while running. Most of these ideas are, of course, random bits of silliness which pop into my head for a brief moment only to disappear forever, thankfully, a few moments later. However, on rare occasions, a random idea sticks and festers in my brain and, despite conscious efforts to banish and replace it with another one which, hopefully, requires less mental exertion, it remains. Such thoughts aren’t particularly profound (as anyone who knows me personally will confirm) but, that said, I occasionally feel the need to explore them. This morning, while running, I had such a thought.
Last week there were a couple Rasmussen Polls which seemed to show Governor Palin losing support among Republican voters. One showed her in third place behind Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney. Another showed her losing in head to head matchups with Huckabee and Romney. At the time I argued, justifiably, that hypothetical polls, even scientific polls, this far from an election, are unreliable at best. I still believe that to be the case. For example, in March 2007 Rudy Giuliani was beating John McCain by 21 points in the Rasmussen Poll for the 2008 GOP nomination, yet less that none year later McCain won.
For that reason, I was not concerned by Governor Palin’s showing in those polls and that remains the case today. Romney’s numbers didn’t seem particularly noteworthy either since there are and always will be a contingent of blue-blood, establishment Republicans from which tedious candidates such as Romney draw their support.
What I did find interesting about the polls, however, is the strong showing by Huckabee. These polls, especially if they hold up for the next 2 years (very unlikely), would lead one to conclude Huckabee is indisputably the frontrunner for the GOP nomination. However, I have yet to hear anyone utter the words "Huckabee" and "frontrunner" in the same sentence. In fact, nobody I know or talk to believes Huckabee has even an outside chance at the nomination, nor do I personally know anyone who says they would vote for him. I include myself in this category as well. Even the pundits generally think it will come down to Palin as the movement conservative vs. Romney (or perhaps Pawlenty) as the Republican establishment candidate. Matt Lewis has noted this, as has Chris Cillizza, to name just two. Again, they don’t even bring up Huckabee as a viable candidate, despite his seemingly strong showing in the polls referred to above.
Further supporting this is Alex Knepper, at Race42012, who wrote the following after attending the 9/12 event in Washington (emphasis mine):
Sarah Palin was without a doubt the unsaid queen of the 9/12 March. Of the many people I interviewed, about a dozen expressed solid support for a Palin candidacy, with all of the others at least open to supporting her.
Many were caught up in the fervor of Joe Wilson’s recent outburst. At moments, it seemed as if every other person was holding a “You Lie” sign. Joe Wilson, indeed, was a name I heard with much greater frequency than Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee (whose name crossed no one’s lips), and Tim Pawlenty. Floated names did include, however, Michele Bachmann, Mitt Romney, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck. But these were not serious propositions.
As someone who teaches statistics, among other things, I know this is all anecdotal. However, even allowing for that, if Huckabee is anywhere near frontrunner status among Republicans, and I know many, wouldn’t at least one of those I know support him? This question has been bugging me for some time and is what I was contemplating as I ran this morning.
Other random bits of information were also swirling in my head. One of these was the recent Rasmussen Poll which showed that an eye-popping 73% of Republican voters believe that Washington GOP leaders have lost touch with their base. Another was the recent Gallup Poll which showed that only 20% of Americans consider themselves Republicans, the smallest bloc in terms of part ID, yet another Gallup Poll indicated that 40% of Americans consider themselves conservatives, which was the largest bloc in terms of political ideology. Further complicating the picture is an August 2009 Gallup Poll, that received little attention, which showed conservatives outnumbering liberals not only at the national level, but the state level as well, even California:
Despite the Democratic Party's political strength -- seen in its majority representation in Congress and in state houses across the country -- more Americans consider themselves conservative than liberal. While Gallup polling has found this to be true at the national level over many years, and spanning recent Republican as well as Democratic presidential administrations, the present analysis confirms that the pattern also largely holds at the state level. Conservatives outnumber liberals by statistically significant margins in 47 of the 50 states, with the two groups statistically tied in Hawaii, Vermont, and Massachusetts.
As I ran with all this seemingly unrelated information coagulating in my brain, an idea, the one I referred to earlier, popped into my head. Suppose Huckabee’s inexplicably strong poll numbers among Republicans are related to the enormous disparity in the number of self-identified Republicans and self-identified conservatives found in the Gallup polls to which I referred? If so, this could help explain Huckabee’s poll numbers despite his lack of grass roots conservative support. Allow me to explain.
We keep hearing that conservatives are leaving the Republican Party in droves and that the primary reason for this is that the establishment GOP is becoming more and more Democrat-light. Rasmussen’s poll, which indicates that 73% of Republicans believe the DC elite in the party has lost touch with the base, is strong evidence of this. We also see this in Governor Palin’s endorsement of Doug Hoffman in NY-23. Even stronger evidence is the fact that even though 40% call themselves conservative, only half, or 20%, call themselves Republicans.
If I received a call from a pollster today, Scott Rasmussen for example, and he asked me to identify my party, I would not identify myself as a Republican. From the above polling data, about half of conservatives would do the same as me. This is important. I don’t know Rasmussen’s precise methodology but I suspect, when he polls for Republican primaries, he excludes Democrats and Independents, using self-identified Republicans for his sample. I further suspect that most of those conservatives who no longer call themselves Republicans (like me) are also those most likely to support Governor Palin. Further, these disaffected conservatives are least likely to support a fiscal liberal like Mike Huckabee or a plastic establishment Republican like Mitt Romney.
In short, the sample may be predisposed to exclude a greater percentage of conservatives who are disgusted with the Republican Party and thus don’t self-identify as Republicans. This would result in an under sampling of those most likely to support Governor Palin and conversely, an over sampling of those most likely to support someone else. This would explain why Huckabee over performs in these polls. Those Republicans who still identify themselves as such are far more likely to be moderate establishment types and, therefore, more likely to eschew a grass roots movement conservative like Governor Palin in favor of a “conventional” choice like Mike Huckabee or Mitt Romney. If my logic is accurate, this is bad news for Mitt Romney. These are the very Republicans he should be dominating, and yet he isn’t.
The large disparity between the number of conservatives and Republicans raises another interesting issue. If a significant amount of grass-roots conservatives have left the Republican Party, as appears likely, what are the implications for the primaries? Many have argued, myself included, that Michael Steele should close the primaries in order to avoid “another McCain”. However, with many conservatives changing their registration from Republican to Independent, we may need to rethink that position.
It’s certainly possible, given the above, that by closing the primaries, we may have a situation where many grass-root conservatives won’t be able to participate in the Republican primaries. If that’s indeed the case, the nominee will almost certainly be determined by the same voters who are pre-disposed to vote for a more conventional candidate than Governor Palin such as Huckabee or Romney. In other words, by closing the primaries in order to avoid "another McCain", we could, ironically, be helping to achieve just that. This is something that should be explored further, possibly in a future post.
To sum this up, it is my hypothesis that, given the fact that many disaffected conservatives are leaving the Republican Party, any polls which attempt to sample those that still identify as Republicans will have a built-in bias against those candidates most likely to be supported by disaffected grass-roots conservatives. Moreover, such polls will tend to favor establishment candidates who are supported by Republicans who think the current status of the party is just fine. Pollsters will certainly attempt to mitigate the sampling error arising from this, but it will be exceedingly difficult to accurately quantify. Time, as they say, will tell.






171 comments:
My bet is that Huckabee's support is basically a placeholder for most of the Conservative/Reaganite wing of the party. "Well, I'm not a fan of Romney, I don't know much about Pawlenty or the others, I guess Palin isn't running since she resigned as Governor and vanished so that leaves me with Huckabee."
Once Palin hits the national scene and every TV, newspaper and internet site is talking about her book, look out.
This is not an accident. Palin and her advisors - I suspect led by Fred Malek - knew full well she needed to tone down the exposure, to back away from the light for a bit. Come November 16, that ends.
I donated to Hoffman Friday morning from Palin's facebook link. I don't think the link is working correctly. So far, no acknowledgement from Hoffman and my credit card was not charged.
Over at Hotair, someone said the facebook link is not secure. Anyone know what is going on?
Juan Williams went after Palin for her endorsement on Bret Baier last night, but not Thompson, Santorum, Bachmann or anyone else, just Palin.
Also, this is the first time in almost a week I could log in with JSkit.
You raise an excellent point. Palin is being under represented in these polls because many conservatives who will vote for her refuse to be identified as GOP or REPUBLICAN for the sake of a poll. Many have left the GOP but would still vote for her.
I would be interested in Rasmussen doing a poll of CONSERVATIVES and not GOP people.
Very good analysis. If they stop counting once they asks are you a Republican and the answer is no then yes only the establishment is left. I think there is also an undercurrent that Sarah is not running (maybe/maybe not). If Sarah runs she will get all but the establishment in her corner. Will she succeed? I think the Ordinary Barbarian doesn't look for fancy stuff, they look for principle. Sarah's endorsement shows her principle. THat is what America wants.
I, too, donated to Hoffman on Friday morning. I followed the link from here, went straight to his site. I don't know if my card has been charged but as of this minute, no confirmation.
My bet is they have staff members entering the card data manually and it takes time since there are, no doubt, hundreds of relatively small transactions from folks like us.
I don't know anyone who speaks of Huck as the frontrunner, all name either Romney or Palin. Even here in MN Pawlenty's name, when brought up, is dismissed with a laugh. No one here takes Pawlenty's dream of the presidency seriously.
Gov. Palin's endorsement of Hoffman, her scheduled appearances at the Right to Life event in Milwaukee, her upcoming sit down with 0prah, the release of Going Rogue, and then the College of the Ozarks event, will have a tremendous impact. My guess is that there are several other events and appearances that haven't been announced yet, and with each event and appearance, sales of Going Rogue will increase.
I plan to register as Republican and vote as one in the primary elections----but when it comes to the actual elections, I'll vote for CONSERVATIVES ONLY, not for RINOs.
Probably MOST conservatives are planning this strategy.
As for the polls: I answer I'm an independent, unless I'm asked in which party I'm registered.
Not all polls ask for the party to which one is registered, though.
I was regularly polled (weekly) during this past national election. It was very interesting; the guy on the phone always choked on my answers---really! I was SO pro-Palin!
Doug,
Whoa, that was a mouthfull lol, but it does make sense.
Polls, geeez. way too early to take any seriously though(sorry techno).
Dan,
You are correct. I say that because both my husband and I will NEVER vote for someone just because they're republican again.
We both have been burned for the last time.
So we kind of feel like we're in limbo or something.....don't really have a "title" so to speak. Yes we are conservatives but without a "homebase".
I guess just conservative will have to do for now.
Doug,
Maybe you should e-mail the meat of this article to Rasmussen . The break down makes a lot of sense to me as well.
Terri,
It was a mouthful. Maybe I had too much time on my hands today!
Ga,
Not only that, but her base will finally be able to actually see "the face behind the facebook".
In otherwords they'll have someone/a body to cheer about and for instead of a facebook quote.
Thousands and thousands and thousands of Palin fans are just kind of waiting in the wings to explode....I know I am.
That reminds me of a song....lol
This is absolutley PERFECT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTnnKuNXUNE
So you're saying polls can be unreliable, or maybe even biased? My faith in the sytem is crushed./s
I'm with you, terri. No more RINOS, ever. I voted for Swartzenegger :(
I want to add something, I am a moderate/conservative democrat, although in reality I am probably an independent as this point, I have no loyalty to the "Democratic" Party anymore after what they did to Hillary and all the lefty radical loonies that now in charge of that damn party.
I consider myself conseravtive when it comes to 3 things (no order): 1) fiscally responsible 2) strong national defense 3) NO judicial activism... as for social issues, I am probably more socially liberal/moderate than most here... I am pro-choice, but that does not mean I am pro-abortion. Sarah Palin chose life, and I completely respect her CHOICE... that is the hypocarcy in the liberals minds, they say pro-choice, but they actually mean pro-abortion.
I do not feel Sarah is some right wing nut, she even nominated and sworn in a pro-choice woman to Alaska's supreme ct, she did not hold this nominee's social views against her, she judged this nominee based on her expeience and competence. This speakes volumnes to me about this woman, all good in my book.
I can guarantee you the weak man in the WH would not have had the strenght do this, he would never appoint a pro-life person to a judicial nominee, no matter the level of competence.
I voted for Hillary Clinton in 2008 as a lifelong democrat, and know that the nomination was stolen from her, even though she had MORE primary votes.
I then voted for Palin in 2008 as a registered lifelong democrat. I have seen this woman's record and will 1000% support her if she ever runs for the highest office.
That being said, as a conservative democrat/independent... I will NOT vote for Romney or Huckabee, I don't trust either of these 2 people. There is something about Huckabee I do NOT trust, and Romney with his constant defense of RomneyCare shows me he is just another politician.
I'm in MN too. T-Paw is a nice guy and all, but his position on global warming alone should disqualify him (that said, I'd take him over Mittens or the Huckster). Also, he's bragging about cutting spending after letting it skyrocket year after year. Sarah cut spending every year as Gov, not just when she decided to run for POTUS. His support for the light rail boondoggle, the statewide smoking ban, and a whole host of other things about him annoy me. His wife bugs me too. She spoke at the rally at the Blaine airport and she was very preachy.
It's a snakepit, Sarah's the only non-reptilian on the horizon.
If you go to page 4 of this thread, I posted all the opposition research you could ever want on The Dope from Hope. I would urge everybody to read it. Huck's candidacy needs to be torpedoed if Sarah is to succeed. I'd post it again on this thread but it's pretty long.
Guest,
That was a very well-written and cogent comment. You sound more like a libertarian than anything else, as am I. That is one of the many reasons I support Gov. Palin. She is socially conservative personally but will never try to judge those who disagree with her like the Huckster who, like you, I will never support.
Doug, let me deal with your points one by one:
1) Huckabee
I will not completely discount the fact as asserted by PPP polling that Huck has led for the last 7 (monthly) polls since March based on a head to head matchup with Obama. but I will submit that the premise that Huckabee is the frontrunner may be flawed as a result.
Again I go back to my football analogy. You have to get to the conference championship to have any chance to win the SB. To advance Huck has to win the GOP nomination.
Here is why this is not a certainty using PPP data.
1) Since June and over the last 4 PPP polls Huck has lost 15 points among conservative F (68 to 53); whereas Palin had only a 4 point lead over Huck among all conservatives in June she now has a 12 point lead over him which is significant.
2) Huck has also lost 14 points since June among all Republicans F (70 to 56); whereas Palin only led Huck by 5 points here in June she now leads Huck by 16 points in October
3) In August Huck led Palin by 11 points F among independents (48-37) and now they are both tied (34-34); incidentally Huck has lost 14 points in indie F since August
4) By the way as I pointed out earlier in the week Huck has also LOST 12 points in his overall F (45 to 33) and 12 points in his WHITE F since August (50 to 38), 7 points in men F (41 to 34) and 3 points in women F (35 to 32) over the last 30 days.
When you look at these numbers you have to ask yourself how can Huck still be the "frontrunner" when he is trending downwards? And my answer is that eventually his bubble will burst as Palin begins to pick up steam from her book launch. Again let me emphasize as of the most recent PPP poll Palin has a 12 point lead on Huck among conservatives and a 16 point lead among Republicans.
Why this is significant is that conservatives comprise about 3/4 of the Republican party and that 80% of voters in the 2008 primaries were Republican members. Thus if you have a significant lead over conservative Republicans you are in good shape, which I believe Palin is, even though the first primary vote is not to Jan 2012.
By the way Rasmussen shows Huck with a 78 favorable among Republicans and Palin a 75 number. This completely runs against the info collected by PPP. This is just too big a discrepancy to ignore. For once I am not convinced that Rasmussen is accurate here.
That's what worries me. There is a hardcore fringe among the establishment-types, mostly Romney supporters, who hate her with a white-hot passion.
Guest,
"I will NOT vote for Romney or Huckabee, I don't trust either of these 2 people. There is something about Huckabee I do NOT trust, and Romney with his constant defense of RomneyCare shows me he is just another politician. "
You don't have to be a democrat/independant/conservative or anything in between to feel like that. lol
If Romney or huckabee gets the nomination...I'll stay home on voting day and watch a good movie.
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Doug,
I'll dissent from this post. The Washington Post poll that you cite showing only 20% of the electorate as Republicans is not a point I would cite because that poll is consistently a joke. At least 30% of the electorate is Republican from credible polling.
Rasmussen is in a different situation where he sees that a lot of conservatives have left the GOP but other pollsters, such as PPP(D) do not find such an occurrence. That's why her numbers are so much stronger than the others in PPP(D) than Rasmussen. According to PPP(D), they have stayed with the party whereas they haven't with Rasmussen.
Profile In Courage: Huckabee agrees with everything Hoffmann does but won't endorse him.
http://yumurl.com/HVjUOz
Second guessing is becoming the norm for all of us, for we all want this nightmare that is the Obama administration to be over ASAP. However, here is what we do know, Sarah Palin has devised a strategy that is very unconventional to all the pundits and talking heads.
Who has seen Sarah since her resignation, other than her speech in Hong Kong? No one, yet she is in the headlines almost daily. When was the last time Huck and Romney were even mentioned in a headline other that this Poll result?
The mear mention of her telling her side of the story in her book got the McCain's people to back track from catrastrophic to a frontrunner and powerful leader.
She endores Hoffman and overnight he receives $116,000 in contributions along along with more high level endoresments.
I for one am enjoying how this is playing out , she has everyone guessing , but she and Todd Know what they are doing. This campaigne will be talked about for years to come.
BTW... I also wanted to add, I have not been polled by any pollester ever, but if any of you have... tell the pollester, there are millions of dems-in-name-only or soon-to-be-independents like me who WILL support Sarah Palin. I have been a democrat for over 2 decades, and the only time I ever voted for a republican was Ronald Reagan. And I mean ONLY.
So, yes I was one of those "Reagan Democrats"
And now I consider myself a "Palin Democrat", although I am disgusted to call myself a "democrat" now as well... so I will soon become a "Palin Independent"
TR,
Every scientific poll I have seen indicates a large, statistically significant, disparity between those who self-identify as conservatives and those who identify as Republicans. I had to cite one of them.
Rino,
The avatar...lol
My family all live in Arkansas (that's another story), and they know all about him. It's not anything this country wants.
I read over your research (missed it the first time, sorry),.interesting stuff. I do remember my family upset about the "illegal immigrants to get college scholarships" stuff. They were upset as was I...and they're democrats (that's another story too..lol)
They never had anything good to say about him.
My sister is a DON in a nursng home there and had his mother as a patient..very interesting.
Techno,
The main point of my post was to attempt to identify a possible reason to explain the odd disparity between Huckster's strong poll numbers and the fact that nobody seriously considers him a frontrunner.
<span>TR,
Every scientific poll I have seen indicates a large, statistically significant, disparity between those who self-identify as conservatives and those who identify as Republicans. I had to cite one of them and that one was the most recent. </span>
Techno,
Sometimes your posts just make my head spin.
You know I have a hard time getting around when I'm feeling so dizzy (as my avatar represents)....lol.
Huckabee is a bigger RINO than McCain. He's a fraud and a charlatan. He's a real-life Elmer Gantry. He's a Christian socialist. The only conservative positions he holds is that he's pro-life and pro 2nd Amendment.. I don't believe he agrees with Hoffman on much.
-Huckabee believes illeagal aliens should get taxpayer-funded college tuition, and he invokes religion to support this. I'm not religious myself, but that makes him a blasphemer, I think.
<span>
<span> (Arkansas Senate Bill 206 would have denied state benefits to illegal aliens, required proof of citizenship to vote, and require state agencies to report illegal aliens.) </span> </span>
<span>
Even if benefits to people who are in the U.S illegally could be stopped, "I don't understand how a practicing Christian can turn his back on a child from this or any other state," Huckabee said.
"Something that's not worth sharing is not worth celebrating," Huckabee said. "This is the kind of country that opens its doors. This bill expresses an un-American attitude." </span>
<span>
(Immigration bill un-Christian, anti-life, governor says, Arkansas News Bureau, 01/28/2005) </span>
<span>
He said the bill could hurt the state's ability to recruit industries based in countries outside the U.S., such as Toyota or Nestle, a Swiss company.
"If we send a message that essentially if you don't look like us, talk like us and speak like us we don't want you, it has tremendous economic repercussions," Huckabee said. </span>
<span>
(Huckabee, callers go toe-to-toe on immigration, Arkansas News Bureau, 02/03/2005) </span>
-He raised taxes by a net total of $505 million.<span> The average taxpayer's annual tax burden grew from $1,969 in 1997 to $2,902 in 2005. He lies about this, saying he cut taxes 90 times. He only had one real tax cut. The rest of these "cuts" were narrowly-targeted adjusments and exemptions.</span>
-Spending grew at three times the rate of inflation during The Dope From Hope's tenure.
-Huckabee supports cap-in-trade.
-Huckabee pardoned more violent criminals during his tenure than all six neighboring states combined, including one Wayne Dumond, who went on to rape and murder a high-school cheerleader.
-Huckabee wrote a forighn policy paper that was so unintelligable and poorly written that it should disqualify him from public discourse.
-When his depraved son tortured a dog to death, Huckabee used his influence to kill an investigation into the incident.
-Huckabee was endorsed by the NEA because of his staunch opposition to vouchers and school choice.
-Huckabee supports a national smoking ban.
I actually like his wife better than him. She set up a support network for families of MN National Guardsmen who were deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq. These were local businesses that provided their services for free to military familes. When my son-in-law was sent to Afghanistan for a year, this support network sent people over to mow my daughter's grass, power wash and stain her deck, cut down a tree, and all kinds of stuff like that.
Tim, yeah, he bugs me too, it was only after the election that he started talking like a conservative. What really bugged me was he sat and did nothing during the Franken Coleman recount. I think that will be a big black mark against him if he enters the primaries.
GAHanson,
2) I believe there is some manipulation going on with respondents in the PPP polling since August. Remember Sarah's F/UF in July after her resignation announcement July 3rd was 47/45.
With PPP polling if you remember in August, PPP inadvertently revealed that they had oversampled PHD grads based on the 2008 exit polls that showed PHD's only comprised 17% of the popn (35% in sample) skewing the poll and thus skewing Palin's favorables as well as this category is where she does the worst. In Sept and Oct PPP did not break down the respondents by education but if it was following the same methodology it would be clear why Palin's F/UF look far worse than they really are.
If you also look at PPP it also may be undersampling indie voters and oversampling Republican voters if the news is accurate that Republicans are losing members and there are now more independents and especially independent conservatives. Doug, that would fit into your theory that Sarah's F would be worse because of the party breakdown used by PPP.
As much as anyone I enjoy the "wonkishness" of evaluating the polling numbers. But I urge all to shift focus to the larger issue of changing people's minds, not just capturing their votes in the next presidential election. What ails our country is bigger than who is president. Even Sarah can't turn things around unless we all finally realize that there is no such think as a free lunch, the government can't solve all our problems, we can't prosper by piling on the debt, and we can't continue with our unsustainable entitlement programs. Only when we come to our collective senses will we begin to pull ourselves out of this quasi-socialist mess that we are in
Interesting analysis, Doug. If I may let me make a few comments.
1. Huckabee. He has a 1 hour show on FNC on Sat night, repeated on Sunday at same primetime. Also has (1 hour?) daily Radio show. So, he has 7 hours of basically fresh audio/video nationally per week, that he controls. Plus with guest spots on other FNC shows and even elsewhere, that's probably another hour per week. I think his FNC show is highest rated Cable show on weekends or close. Offhand, I'd say he has more new "personal" national exposure each week than all the potential 2012 candidates combined. I'm excluding Facebook in this count as not personal in traditional sense. He is softer that Glenn and Sean, so gets a minimum of "negative vibes". Also with musical guests like Willie Nelson and Lynard Skynard (sp?), that's also a minimum of negatives. So, you get a poll call on Monday and you saw Huck's show Saturday or Sunday night, who's on your mind then? This far out, it is more like a High School Class Officer election - a popularity contest! No real consequence to your choice now - that changes in just over three years.
Don't count Huck out though. In October 2007, he was an also ran, but that changed in just 2 months. He was out spent and out organized by Mitt, but did almost as well. Dollar for dollar (or dollar for vote), he beat Mitt by a mile. He could be helpful to Sarah in this experience of how to run a National Campaign efficiently.
2. I agree with the open/closed primary analysis. Sometimes when you work for something for so long and/or hard, by the time you get it, the expected result is not there. This can be due to incorrect analysis from the beginning or things have changed in the interim, and you had blinders on and didn't see the changes.
3. Maybe why Internet Polls rate Sarah much higher is there is no Party filter as with Polling Orgs. D, R, I (and U's) can vote - totally Open Primary! I suspect the real truth is somewhere in between.
Huckabee is so bad that I'll vote for Obama if he's the nominee. He would utterly destroy the conservative movement.
One of my favorite quotes about Huckabee comes from our own Bill in Baltimore..
"Huck is busy at guitar practise right now".....lol
Supposedly Huck is speaking a some function this weekend......
"Certainly his views represent more closely to mine," said Huckabee. "I'm not taking a role in that with my PAC, simply because I feel like it would be inappropriate with me at this point -- mainly because I'm already speaking to the Conservative Party next week. But it is not an endorsement speech, it is an awards speech, and I don't want to get the two confused.""
Now who says that an endorsement needs to be a speech?
And....
"Huckabee also said: "I'm never gonna support somebody who does not believe that every human life has value and meaning. I'm not gonna support people who would do things like say TARP is one of those great, wonderful things. I think I have a right and responsibility to only support people who hold to principles, above party and above just the politics of winning and losing.""
Huhhhhhh?????......I thought that's what Hoffman stood for too!
This guy, I just would never vote for....like I've said before, I'll just stay home.
TSM,
I agree that Huckster's numbers are likely inflated a bit by his TV show. Internet polls are not scientific and thus can't tell you anything. Well, they could, I suppose, give you an idea of how much internet "buzz" a candidate has. But as far as projecting the results of an internet poll on the general electorate, there is no scientific basis to make that leap.
Cillizza on another thread claims "Nobody in the Beltway takes Huckabee's frontrinner status seriously."
What would be more interesting is to find out how Cillizza knows this and what the Beltway types base their assessment on.
terri,
That is one of my favorite videos, it is so perfect for 2012. Thank you for linking it.
I love the part at :38, when Governor Palin is looking right at the camera, and they sing: "But I won't bow down, even if the whole world thinks I'm crazy." It makes me so proud to support such a strong person. To go through what she has since August 29, 2008, and still be standing, let alone taking it to the opposition, like she does! Wow! She is remarkable.
Also, at 1:38, where she is straining as hard to reach as many hands in the crowd, as the mob of people are to reach her hands, it makes me smile. She is so genuine.
That video made my day,again! Thank you!
Techno,
Obama would love to run against ol' Huck are you kidding.
We all have to remember, what Rush says rings true....the left will always show us who they're afraid of.
We will NEVER let them pick our candidate again!
Guest,
Thank you for your comment. That was great!
OK, I know this is anecdotal, but my wife says nobody takes Huckabee seriously because of his name. She just can't imagine the words "President Huckabee" rolling off anyone's tongue. She does have a point...
Doug, very good while running!... Im impressed! I couldn't have thought of a thing except... air!..air!
I also wouldn't identify as a republican...
Im not one to care the least about polls this early on... I DON"T TRUST THEM!
If Acorn can register Mickey Mouse to vote without sufficient national outrage, then it stands to reason that I can vote for Mickey Mouse for President in 2012 should the GOP push in a Rhino. ....... Does anyone know if Mickey is pro-choice or pro-life?
Thanks for the post, Doug! I think that this points to something larger than polling data. It has to do with electing public servants rather than politicians. A public servant is one who serves principles above party. As Doug said, the fact that someone like Huckabee is the frontrunner shows that those who profess to be a Republican are not much on principle, but party. As someone showed a few days ago (I'm sorry I don't remember who), Huckabee's record is not at all conservative. As well, the fact that he is speaking near Doug Hoffman's district, but doesn't feel he can support him shows that he may be more concerned about staying in the good graces of the Republican party than he is about standing for what is right.
Techno,
I wish I had the time and resources (and inclination) to "test" my hypothesis statistically. For now, however, it will simply be remain a hypothesis. In my mind, if my hypothesis is wrong, there has to be another explanation to explain Huckster's numbers. Again, I don't know anyone who likes the guy. I know people who like Romney, Pawlenty, Gingrich, hell, even Obama. But nobody can stand Huckster. There has to be an explanation!
Ya that recount was outrageous and from here (Ga) looked asif he supported all the chicanery.
Did your sis have anything to say about Huckabee coming in to the nursing home? Did he ever act like a dick to the staff or his mom?
I emailed rasmussen and asked if they would do a poll of conservatives as oppose to gop voters. Probly wont hear back, but maybe plant a seed.
Whitney,
I still can't figure out Huckster's reasoning for not endorsing Hoffman. I watched him on Cavuto yesterday, using seriously tortured logic to justify his position, and I went cross-eyed.
Good line fromGates of Vienna Blog:
"Let's see if Scozzafava's husband calls the police on Sarah Palin, hmmmm?"
http://teablog.us/blog/?p=3
If we have anything to say about it we wont let them pick our candidate, but we need a bigger army still!
Rhino,
Great post.
I don't think alot of people (even my fellow barbarians here) know that much about ol' Huck and his history as governor.
One of the things I dislike most about Huck was the way he talked about Sarah after she resigned as governor. He spoke as if he had the same ethics violation problems as Sarah did and he was "man enough" to take it and didn't "quit".
Huckabee had 14 ethic complaints filed against him while Governor for 10 years as compared to what, 20 complaints Sarah had in 2-3 years. The intensity and the end results were like comparing apple and oranges.
Plus 5 of those complaints resulted in violatons.
For an ex-preacher, He is not as kind of a man as he portrays himself to be.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/11/13/huckabee/
The way I see it, any poll head to head with Palin and Obama where Palin is below 44 is ludicrous to me. Reason being, her and McCain got 45% last election basically. So when some poll has her at 40 and obama at 53 it just makes no sense to me. That would mean not one obama voter changer their minds, but 5 pts of mccain palin voters did? No way I say. Palin would get the same number of votes as McCain at a bare minimum when the ballots are counted.
Your right about it not projecting to the general electorate, but we must remember that is where Obama got his start, ONLINE ACTIVISM. He built the buzz there and then built on that.
Nancy,
I can't wait till she "comes out" and starts stumping for others and more important, "stumping" for herself! lol
I hope when that starts, the mods here will have that video upfront and center for all to see and get inspiration from....:-)
Actually she said that he hardly came at all. His wife was the one that would come.
HaHa... seriously, I thought that i was the only one that thought that!
Bestbud,
LOL! Me too! air!....air!
Love your comment Kjanlady!:)
His tv show is on Saturday nites on fox news station. Geeez...
What person under say, 30 watches that? His tv audience has got to be people over the age of 40 and more thatn likely 'puter illiterate like me, hence the descrepincy(sp) between "phone polls" and internet polls.
I like your thinking Doug. My only concern is that if the dems don't have a primary they can wreck havoc on the repubs-Sarah. This could get ugly but if bo has destroyed enough maybe there will be a dem primary (not). Here in Ga there is no party registration for primaries you just select a party ballot so cross over is never a stopped.
Oh rhino,
I think I'd rather have a root canal than vote for Obama....I'll stay home.
He made absolutely no sense.
That's odd. Sounds like our current POTUS who dumped his grandma in a hospital and never visted her until a week before she died.
PEC,
You made this comment in another thread "ANother thing telling me Sarah is building a non-Beltway team is the place Sarah is building next to her house." I was just wondering how do you know Sarah and Todd are actually building another place. To me it like more like there neighbors are or somebody solded the land and building there.
<span>PEC,
You made this comment in another thread "ANother thing telling me Sarah is building a non-Beltway team is the place Sarah is building next to her house." I was just wondering how do you know Sarah and Todd are actually building another place. To me it like more like there neighbors are or somebody solded the land and building there. </span>
Dan C,
I agree with that. It is up to all of us to maintain and increase the online buzz all the way through 2012 and beyond.
Huck wants to have it both ways. He wants to be on the record that he agrees with Hoffman, but he doesn't endorse him because he doesn't want to upset the GOP establishment.
Judging by the birthing habits of most mice, I would guess that Mickey is pro-life. He is probably anti mouse trap (death penalty) though.
Neo,
GREAT find!....no better words ever said in my opinion.
Almost sounds like a pre-req don't it. s/
tim c,
That's true. This is one of those issues that can be argued either way.
That's just what i was thinking!...lol
Now Huck used a fine example of Prezel Logic in the Cavuto clip.
Dems are so deranged theyd vote for palin in the gop primary because they think shes the weakest candidate.
Neo,
That was awesome, thank you for the link!
<span>Now Huck used a fine example of Pretzel Logic in the Cavuto clip.</span>
The latest pajamamedia video, have you all seen this yet?...Good stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhPqmJynQPU&feature=player_embedded
Listening to talk radio all the time, all I ever hear regarding Huckabee are references to his show. Apparently he has a talk show on FOX. ealy on I was a avid supporter of Romney. Still am and I hope Sarah picks him for her running mate. Palin/Romney '12
MM, I've never been polled in my entire life.
Look, I'm gonna say it again here as I said before. ALL SARAH supporters MUST reregister REPUBLICAN. If you don't, how can you VOTE for her?
All those Hillary voters that are leaning towards Palin who cannot vote in the closed primary in their state, need to become Republicans. I know the instincts may not be there due to the past, but today's GOP is not the mostly big business party of country clubbers. It is now primarily the party of the little guy, struggling in the middle class, the small-businessman, the non-union people who don't get anything unless they work hard for it.
I've noticed that people don't understand that a huge chunk of Indies are conservative or libertarian.
Excellent post Doug. I never came close to actually barking up that tree like you did, but only caught the scent on the air. Thanks.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE reregister GOP. Third-party is not gonna happen.
Do it for Sarah, your families, friends and your country.
Great article Doug.... All this came to you while RUNNING.
Now I know I'm, a Dimwit, Because when I'm running all I'm thinking of is the song
playing on my IPOD.
sarah rocks 2012
Guest,
>><span style=""> that is the hypocarcy in the liberals minds, they say pro-choice, but they actually mean pro-abortion. </span>
- Amen to that. (and as you say, Sarah says "I choose life")
>><span style=""> that is the hypocarcy in the liberals minds, they say pro-choice, but they actually mean pro-abortion. </span>
- I believe that she didn't have a choice, she was given 2 or 3 candidates from which she chose 1. Others can clarify for me.
(corrected)
<span style="">Guest,
>><span> that is the hypocarcy in the liberals minds, they say pro-choice, but they actually mean pro-abortion. </span>
- Amen to that. (and as you say, Sarah says "I choose life")
>><span> </span>she even nominated and sworn in a pro-choice woman to Alaska's supreme ct, she did not hold this nominee's social views against her,
- I believe that she didn't have a choice, she was given 2 or 3 candidates from which she chose 1. Others can clarify for me.</span>
My opinion!... I'll qualify it ahead of time--Im a Texas hick, much like Lipstick said in her piece about Armadillos yesterday... here is my thing!
Having had the glorious experience of being introduced to Gov Palin last year... feeling lighting-bolts and thunder through-out my being as she consistently exhibits her patented servants heart-of-gold and fearless Patriotism in defense of American greatness...
I will never be able to go back to the old politician I see in the rear view mirror of my Imagination.... and sorry to say!... I DON'T SEE ANYTHING BUT THAT OUT THERE!
I have seen to many... Self-serving, so called Public Servants...
I now have witnessed the... ultimate self-less Public Servant... SARAH!
RINO-hunter,
thanks for the reminder. I've been wanted to get back to Huck's "resume"
No it won't. If Sarah throws her hat in the ring, you have to come through for her and register GOP assuming your state is a closed primary. Otherwise, you can't vote for her and she risks losing without your help. She needs you.
Third party would be suicide..
Bestbud,
Yes, she is THE Gold Standard.
I do not trust the lot of them.
Bestbud ...I'm with you with the Thunderbolts and Lighting, Sarah True Heart of Gold.
Can never go back.
sarah rocks 2012
Bestbud,
Yes, she is THE Gold Standard.
I do not trust anyone else.
Sarah will sweep the nation as an Independent. Everyone is disgusted. She will take us back to our independence / constitution. Did they even have parties back then (checking for my high school text book, it must be around here somewhere).
Who isn't disgusted with the government ?
I hate polls because
- they sample what, like 1,000 people ???
- I've never been polled nor do I know anyone (outside of C4Pers) whose ever been polled
- they are run by people with an agenda
- they ask leading questions
- the results DRIVE public opinion !
phooey on them.
Everyone here talks about polls like it's talking about facts. They're all B.S. in my not so humble opinion.
And seriously, what is the point of wasting your time and energy on it now ? It doesn't mean a hill of beans difference.
- if Sarah runs, when she announces, that will be worth checking the polls
- if Sarah doesn't run, this has all been a useless exercise.
Is Sarah looking at the polls to determine whether or not to run ? Hell no.
- She's looking at Facebook, she's looking at Doug Hoffman's contributions, etc.
When she thinks that she has enough support (not determined by polls), and if she feels she is being LED to do this, then she'll run.
And she'll win, regardless of the stupid polls.
I supported Huckabee in the Iowa Caucus. He'll have in 2012 the same problem he had in 2007 & 2008 and the problem he's having with his PAC... he can't raise funds. He can't seem to also break out from beyond just having evangelical support (of which I am one).
I am not concerned about the poll either. And I think Palin will go up in the polls as her exposure increases.
I would hope that you reregister to GOP if your state has a closed primary.
Based on my talks and observations of people at the Tea Parties I have been to, it would not surprise me if MANY conservatives and libertarians that were in the GOP reregistered to Independent. Over serveral months since February, that WOULD cause a gradual erosion of Palin's numbers with Rasmussen.
We have no hard proof of Doug's hypothesis, but we CAN guard against it.
Let's see, Huck walked away with the Values Voter thing and Iowa last time. In the end, what did it mean? Jack squat.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. And Sarah's a runner.
Nancy, thanks....Good way to put it... Gold Standard!
My favorite moment during the debates in the primary was when Fred Thompson absolutely destroyed Huckster on taxes, and a very flustered Huckster retorted, "I didn't raise taxes, I raised HOPE!". That sort of cheesy, Obama-esque demagoguery tells me all I need to know about him.
Agree... she has COMPLETELY RUINED my despair with politics and politicians...
I think if you check your facts Sarah had 19 complaints in 7 months.
Sapwolf,
I agree, everyone needs to register or re-register as Republicans in order to guard against it.
You are right Sapwolf and a list of states that you need to register to vote in party primaries could probably be posted here when it is time.
Kjanlady... great sarc!
Well I was only polled once, at CPAC with Fabrizio/(he was Buchanan's original pollster)Mclaughlin. that was the poll that Romney 'won'. So I'm skeptical since then. Huck is good as a talk show host, but as a leader, please, during the primary, and after even with the NY 23 contest, you can't nail him down, He says he was against TARP, possibly but what was his solution.
Huckabee was my governor and I would vote for him because I believe he is truly principled in his conservative values both fiscally and socially. But. Certainly not in a head to head with Sarah Palin)
I think he also has some good ideas about taxes. I think he's right that we should get away from taxing people's productivity and savings and tax them on the use end.
He also got a bad wrap in the press over raising taxes. Arkansas was under a Supreme Court order to change the funding formulas for public schools. It wouldn't have mattered who was in the governor's seat, it was going to take taxes to do it.
Having said that he made me mad over a couple of things. Concerning the above mentioned court order he wasted a lot of state time and money trying to appeal it when it was a slam dunk no brainer. He lost the appeal 0 to 9. Maybe he did it as a strategic move to prove he had no choice. But even so, it just wasted a lot of time and state money and spun the schools into further chaos since the court order had a time limit.
The other thing he did was when the state legislators tried to ban smoking in restaurants, he blocked it. This wasn't a "climate change" issue. There is a preponderous of evidence that having to suck in someone else's cigarette smoke is physically harmful. While I have some libertarian leanings, I fundamentally believe the rights of your fist end at my nose. And that kids need to be looked after. I felt like he was playing politics to the issue, I suspect some connections with the tobacco industry. But I have no way to confirm that, it's just a suspicion.
He's also just not very exciting. Very nice, but not very exciting.
I think the most important thing we can do now is stay off the quibbling page of the play book. The Dems are eating themselves alive. We need to be lifting one another up. Governor Palin didn't bash on Scozzafava. She ENDORSED Huffman. She lifted up Huffman and she said why. What I believe is turning off the American public is the nastiness that is coming out of the White House and its people. People want to see a real positive politician. I think a lot of people thought that's who Barack Obama was, and they are beginning to find that harder and harder to believe because of what is going on with the people around him.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of folks out there who just aren't very idealogical when it comes to politics. They're simply looking for someone who (corny as it is) they can believe in.
Governor Palin started losing her favorabiles when the McCain camp sent her out badmouthing Obama. I don't believe that is the kind of person she truly is, and I believe it hurt her more than people realize. I believe she will overcome her "Barbie" image as time passes, but it will be harder for her to erase her "pallin' around with terrorists" line.
The way, in my opinion, to move Sarah's favorabilities up, is to not tear other candidates down. Instead of bashing guys like Romney, all you have to do is say, "I don't like where he wants to take us as a country." And then talk about the positive direction that Governor Palin wants to take us in. Same with Gingrich, same with Huckabee, same with T Paw. If those folks, and their followers, feel like they got a fair shake, when the time comes, they'll support Governor Palin. If they've feel they've been maligned, misrepresented, or personally attacked, they won't.
The seeds we sow now will make a difference later.
Just my two cents.
Dr. Vicki
Hey everybody-!!
Just wanted to say thanks to all you barbarians... for bringing such great comedic relief to this site.. my wife Gina says thanks also... her life is much happier now that Im rolling around on the floor laughing... my pit-bull (bestbud) says thanks too... while on the floor he always thinks it's play time!
My best guess would be support from evangelicals who supported him last time, and his exposure on Fox News, etc.
Just a guess. Frankly I don’t put much stock in polls this far out.
Much truth to what you said.. thanks for the reminder!
Doug,
I'm no fan of Huck's by any stretch of the imagination, but Kevin McCullough, of Town Hall) sure sounds like he is. McCullough is the guy cited by Rush in that he (McCullough) predicted bammy would be president, YEARS before anyone had ever heard of him.
http://kevinmccullough.townhall.com/blog/g/23809643-6a00-4795-978b-4b794647a821&comments=true#commentAnchor
In dec. of '06 he predicted Obama.
http://kevinmccullough.townhall.com/blog/2009/03
Let's hope Mr. McCullough's prediction doesn't pan out this time around. The first few comments after the first link were sickening in their totally bamboozled state of Huckesterism.
However, President Obama doesn't exactly roll off either ;-)
Sorry, don't know why it double posted.
Also, on the endorsement thing with Huck, I understood he had an agreement with the Conservative people he was doing the speech for. My money is that he endorses after the speech.
I could be wrong.
Sounds like the libertarian wing of the party might swing Sarah's way. Not sure how many there are (I lean libertarian). But I don't think any self-respecting libertarian could vote for Huck given this record.
Rino @ 17:27, is that research included in your couple-days-ago research ?
CBDenver @ 17:28 --- very good point(s)
It's NEO's site . . .
terri, great PJTV video, thanks.
I think we have made rather crystal clear, why we oppose Huckabee, and why we support Sarah. If it wasn't clear enough by Ayers, as well as the endorsement by Hamas's political director, which have been validated by the pathetic UN speech, the attack on our military and intelligence services, the stalling on the MacCrystal plan for Afghanistan, Who else has really staked out ground on the woefully dangerous to our economy cap n trade bill, an unethical some would say immoral health care plan, and those are things off the top of my head
Same status here re: Hoffman donation.
I posted this a while back and some of you may have seen it before but now that were talking polls again this is a funny clip from the UK TV show yes Prime Minister about how polls are conducted.
National Service = Military Draft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yhN1IDLQjo
Yeah, what I posted above is basically just a summary of the research I posted on the other thread.
RD, I've got some very strong libertarian tendencies. That's why I support Sarah. I think she's the only candidate who can draw strong support from all wings of the party, with the exception of the Northeastern elite (who need to STFU and sit quietly in the back of the bus for a change).
They could pull an Operation Chaos like Rush did with Hillary. And it's really a toss up who they''d support in the GOP primary. While Dems currently SAY they want Sarah, do they really???? I could see them voting for Huck to take out Sarah. I honestly cannot envision a world where Democrats would vote FOR Sarah thinking she would be easier to defeat.
Can you???
Because deep down they FEAR her ... as much as conservatives feared Obama!
terri - you're right, it's perfect. Thanks for posting the link. Love those Sarah videos!
terri - you're right, it's perfect. Thanks for posting the link. LOVE those Sarah videos!
A lot of states don't have open primaries or caucuses. You have to be registered as a member of a party.
Sounds like you've been Thunderstruck :-)
I swear, they should open every Palin rally with this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvoeeq-BH4w
OT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/22/AR2009102204684.html?nav=hcmodule
President Obama doesn't want to mention health care reform while campaigning in MA because of the problems similar policies are having in MA. Hmm....poor, poor Romney.
I actually supported Huck in the primaries when it was a three-way. I couldn't stomach Romney or McCain.
But he's soured on me since his tv show. He should stick to being a commentator.
"Not who you would like it to be"
yeah, right:)
Who on earth is voting "none of the above?"
My Aunt came to visit yesterday. I told her I was going to see Sarah in Milwaukee.
She goes, "You know, I liked her at first, but I don't know what's wrong with her. Everybody's against her."
I said, "Everybody's against her because there's something right with her."
I'm also a Palin Independent, but I'm a disaffected Republican.
Still, you are another reason why I've repeatedly said that Sarah Palin has the potential to bring both major parties to their knees. Her appeal is that broad.
Cuda,
I know it was a loon that commented about it but let us be serious. Sarah made at a minimum 4 million most estimates 7 million advance on her book deal. If I had that much money I would spread out not have people move in next to me. Throw in SarahPac and her new Group and she is going to need office space. To keep ops in Alaska what better idea is it to just have it local. Go to work next door. Have distinguish guest in and have them with a place to stay with a view of the lake behind them. I can't prove I just would be more surprised if it is a neghbor moving that close to her. ALso the loon said Sarah is renting the place next door. Once again makes sense. Lodging for out of town staff who are there for long term stays. The loons missed the reasons but I think it makes as much sense that this will become Sarah HQs.
I think you're absolutely right. Sarah is not an "extreme rightwing" leader and unfortunately the role she had to play last year in the camapign as chief attack dog to the lap dog McCain campaign made her seem "out of the mainstream"...
In her own campaign she'll be able to win over independents and moderates with a positive message of where she wants to lead the country.
Sapwolf - assuming i) Sarah runs and ii) as a Republican. Neither is yet certain.
Uffda, need to get your Aunt on alternative media
Yeah, right! She's like, ancient. I'm sending her a copy of Sarah's book, though.
No offense to any tech-savvy ancients we've got on here:)
SMACK!
SMACK!
SMACK!
SMACK!
SMACK!
SMACK!
Break!
Everything McCullough said about Huckabee, just substitute Sarah's name. She's evangelical. She resonates with Christian conservatives. And unlike Huck, she really excites!
I fancy myself as somewhat psychic, ever since at age 12 I had a psychic prediction of John Lennon's death. (I loved listening to Beatles' songs)
Here are the "favorable winds" that are breaking for her (just as they broke for Obama last year):
-- discontent with both parties
-- overwhelming voter concern with government accountability / lack of integrity in leaders
-- Obama finally revealing who he is: a Chicago politician
-- growing public support for sending troops to Afghanistan
-- continued high unemployment
-- no accountability on Wall Street
-- Tea Party movement / 9/12 march
-- Townhall meetings
-- Ratings spike at Fox News / talk radio
-- Obama enemies' list
-- Glenn Beck populism
People want a leader who means what she says and says what she means.
They wanted change in 2008 ... but not the kind Obama brought.
Sarah is everything Obama pretended to be: transparent, honest, post-partisan, pragmatic.
And I love what she said in a radio interview after last year's campaign. When asked if she'd run for president, she said (to paraphrase): "I wonder if people are ready for the kind of campaign I would run. It would not look like anything they've ever seen."
Fred was the only adult in any of the primary debates....back stabbed by politco then Faux news;(
Sarah and Todd are definitely building another house alongside their own. Story goes that this will be for Bristol and Tripp - which certainly means that Todd and Sarah intend to stay in Alaska. If they didn't, they'd rent a condo for Bristol for a year or so and then let her move into their existing Lake Lucille home when they moved to the states. That is not happening.
I've also heard that they are renting the house on the other side of the new structure - maybe this is for Meghan Stapleton or other advisors/employees.
Uffda, I think that's exactly what happened to Sarah's support. When the libs went after her so viciously, her supporters started to lose heart. I have to admit that I had my moments of wavering. It's so politically incorrect to support Sarah. Once we all realize how many of us there are, our confidence will grow. We're all a little nervous for Sarah right now. Once she picks up a head of steam it will bring everybody back who was with her from the beginning.
Doug great take down and I agree with you.
What it never cedes to amaze me that all those pollsters play it out as if the President wakes up one morning decides that today there’s going to be an election and whoever happened to be up in the polls the night before wins.
What they seem to leave out in their reports that before the election there are primaries, TV Ads, a gazillion debates, interviews, more ads, more debates, a primary... and the whole saga repeats itself like a hundred times.
Then comes the National campaign, interviews, rallies, TV spots, more interviews, convention, more rallies, debates more interviews.... etc.
The bottom line, if Gov. Palin does run for president In November 2012 she’ll be seen as a completely different person as in January 2012. She’ll be seen by the majority of the country the way we see her now.
Fred was back stabbed by Politco then Faux news...he was the only adult in the primary debates.
Would be perfect Sec of State or attorney general for Madame President 45
THis is something we need to educate fellow Barbarians on when/if the time comes. THere are time periods of when you declare your party, who can vote in what primary, when is the primary/caucus, how Caucuses are done vs primaries. These are the little things that make big differences.
Her choice was somebody that it is believed is pro-choice (which has very little impact at State level to begin with) or a known environmental loon (could definitely damage the State). She chose the one that would do the least known damage to the State. Environmental loons on the court can totally destroy the economy. Ask Californians.
As I remember, right after that line, McCain turned around and said that Mr. Obama was not a bad guy.
What a back stabber.
For me, that is when McCain jumped the shark.
I would not be surprised if it were the same for Mrs. Palin. That's about when she went rogue.
Loved it! Thanks!
well said
terri,
you are correct.
it would establish Sarah as another Ross Perot singing, "Crazy."
Don't believe it is for Tripp and Bristol, thoguh they may stay there. I think it will be a nice office with likely a couple of the close advisors and a Conference room. Another floor could be libing room for Bristol but I expect a couple of visitor rooms. Say Fred and Jeri Thompson wants to go and meet with her for a few days. Let them stay there.
I do believe they are renting the building next to them also. Once again more staff work place. SHe is starting a new Political group. She has SARAHPAC. I think she is going to tell people if they aren't willing to move to Alaska she doesn't want them. Oh she could also have an IT section for these 2 groups.
Sapwolf - That depends on the State. In South Carolina and Georgia you do not register for any party. The only rule is you can only vote in 1 primary. Many States are that way. If Sarah doesn't run he#$ I could care less what people register as. Unless there is a different Republican name that I don't know about I could care less about voting for. For that matter the Constitutionalist Party Candidate will probably be solid. It isn't like Huck, Romeny, Jindal or Pawlenty are beating Obama anyway. Huck is the only one with a pulse and it isn't much of one. Romney and Huck couldn't beat McCain for heavans sake. Yawnlenty and Jindal are boring beyond reality.
90-95% of people are libertarian in AMerica they just don't know it and it vaires from Social to economical.
Sheya - Thank You. Something I have been saying all along. I think Sarah will be different but I am not worried. If America wants to play it safe and go with one of these Inside The Beltway Politicians as we have for a now then so be it. We will continue to sink deeper into the Abyss. If through the Primaries, interviews, Debates visits etc. people see Sarah as we do then we can save this Nation from the Abyss.
OK now I got it. The thing is I just don't like to deal in rumors when it involes Sarah. It this has a sese of plauseablity to. it
OK now I got it. The thing is I just don't like to deal in rumors when it involes Sarah. This however has a sense of plauseablity to it.
John,
"If they didn't, they'd rent a condo for Bristol for a year or so and then let her move into their existing Lake Lucille home when they moved to the states. That is not happening."
What not happening a move to the states because if this is the case then a run in '12 looks like it is more thn likely out of the question. Now on the other hand, Sarah more than likely would get a place down here in th lower 48 for a run in the primaries and possible the gerneral election. Sarah will need one because of all the time she would spend down here. I just can't see Sarah living in a hotel suite on the off days but it could happen.
<span>This from earlier in the thread.</span>
<span>PEC,</span>
<span>OK now I got it. The thing is I just don't like to deal in rumors when it involes Sarah. This however has a sense of plauseablity to it.</span>
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<div class="js-singleCommentDate jsk-ItemAge jsk-SecondaryFontColor"><span>John,
"If they didn't, they'd rent a condo for Bristol for a year or so and then let her move into their existing Lake Lucille home when they moved to the states. That is not happening."
What not happening a move to the states because if this is the case then a run in '12 looks like it is more thn likely out of the question. Now on the other hand, Sarah more than likely would get a place down here in th lower 48 for a run in the primaries and possible the gerneral election. Sarah will need one because of all the time she would spend down here. I just can't see Sarah living in a hotel suite on the off days but it could happen.</span></div>
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<span>This is from earlier in the thread.</span>
<span>PEC,</span>
<span>OK now I got it. The thing is I just don't like to deal in rumors when it involes Sarah. This however has a sense of plauseablity to it.</span>
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<span>John,
"If they didn't, they'd rent a condo for Bristol for a year or so and then let her move into their existing Lake Lucille home when they moved to the states. That is not happening."
What not happening a move to the states because if this is the case then a run in '12 looks like it is more thn likely out of the question. Now on the other hand, Sarah more than likely would get a place down here in th lower 48 for a run in the primaries and possible the gerneral election. Sarah will need one because of all the time she would spend down here. I just can't see Sarah living in a hotel suite on the off days but it could happen.</span></div>
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This is from earlier in the thread.
PEC,
OK now I got it. The thing is I just don't like to deal in rumors when it involes Sarah. This however has a sense of plauseablity to it.
John,
"If they didn't, they'd rent a condo for Bristol for a year or so and then let her move into their existing Lake Lucille home when they moved to the states. That is not happening."
What not happening a move to the states because if this is the case then a run in '12 looks like it is more thn likely out of the question. Now on the other hand, Sarah more than likely would get a place down here in th lower 48 for a run in the primaries and possible the gerneral election. Sarah will need one because of all the time she would spend down here. I just can't see Sarah living in a hotel suite on the off days but it could happen.
She was much more clever about it, when she said Hoffman was not the product of any party machine, that axe dropped on Dede so fast she didn't notice what had happened. That gives
people in the GOP and elsewhere, the opening to vote their convictions
techno: I got to thinking about your Jesus disciples comment. I see some parallels to Sarah.
1. HE made speeches to crowds or just talked to them and they or others would go aside and say, "I wonder what that meant?"
2. They would make suggestions about what HE should or shouldn't do.
3. They would sometimes argue among themselves about their "position" or others. Also about how effective they or others were.
4. Throughout it all though, they stuck together for three years. Because they realized HE was different than any leader they had seen.
Cuda - A lot of what was said is rumor but other things are too easy to prove. To build a house/office requires permits etc that are public record. Her renting the land next may be though I doubt it. The Bristol permanent residence thing is dumb beyond all belief. As I said, giving her and Tripp a little privacy is nice while she is in school. That is little more than 2 small bedrooms a little living area and a kitchen. The place looks big so I see offices and a little living area for distinguished visitors. Once again if I am worth 4+ million I'll be derned if I would want a neighbor building right on top of me.
Disagree on definitely not running in '12 though it may be true. I think she could easily go to Alaska for a few days. Flight time it is only about 3-4 more hours than it was for Reagan. Plus she is so unconventional think of the advantage of going back home away from everything. In todays Digital age Alaska is not far away. VTCs, E-Mails internet has made Alaska a home base just as feasible as New York.
No offense taken....heheheh
No building permits in Wasilla, no zoning laws.
Good to here that but normally even without permits the county has to know (for tax purposes if nothing else). My parents live (and I grew up) in such a county and the county still knows.
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